Laura Kåmark
Hey everyone. Welcome to the Be Bold Make Waves Podcast, a show bringing you inspiring stories of women who are growing and scaling their business. I’m your host, Laura Kåmark, a website and tech integration specialist who works with online business owners who love their work and not their website. Join me as we have incredible conversations about business mindset, productivity, and of course, the website and tech behind the business. Let’s go ahead and dive in to this week’s episode.

Laura Kåmark
Hello, and welcome to the show today. For those of you who don’t already know me, my name is Laura Kåmark. I’m a website and tech integration specialist who works with women who love their work, but not their website. My guest today is Sarah Guilliot, who is a launch strategist with 20 years experience in web and user experience design and copywriting. She’s created sales pages, site architecture and advertising campaigns for big tech corporations such as Microsoft, GoDaddy, and T Mobile. Sarah. Sarah currently runs an agency at Sarah design.com, where she provides a sales page copywriting service for business coaches and online educators launching an online course group programs or membership. Sara, thank you so much for being here on the show today. I’m so excited to introduce you to my audience. Can you tell everyone just a little bit more about you and what you do?

Sarah Guilliot
Yes, thank you for having me, Laura. Super fun to be here. Um, yeah, so I am a copywriter. I was a designer for most of my career in corporate but I also worked with copy and I created tons of sales pages. And this, we were just talking before this call about I had recently made a pivot where I’ve removed design services from my offering and I’m I’m really doubling down on copy for sales pages for those people who are launching their, their courses and their group programs. And yeah, it’s it’s really fun. It’s fun to bring my experience in in this in this way to the women around me. And so yeah, I’m excited for what’s ahead.

Laura Kåmark
I’m excited for you too. And just so our audience knows Sarah and I met a number of years ago and have we’re in like a little chat mastermind together. And so it’s always fun, because when i She’s one of the people I bounce a lot of ideas off of, and she is my idea generators, I will call you. So that’s my favorite. I know you always have really fun things, you’ve a fun way of looking at things kind of outside of the box, and getting a different perspective. And so I’ve always really appreciated that about you. Thank you. So I would love to know, can you kind of take us back a little bit. I’d love to hear this a little bit about your journey when you first like went into the online space.

Sarah Guilliot
Yeah, so um, it’s kind of an interesting story, because I did the whole corporate thing for 20 years. And I was, you know, for all intents and purposes successful, like I, you know, climbed the corporate ladder, I knew how to kind of get around the politics of the office. But I was not loving it.

Sarah Guilliot
Really tired of having managers and other people in charge of my time, you know, so I started dreaming about kind of doing my own thing, but I was really scared. And myself and my bestie in the office, we were like masterminding our little side businesses that we would sneak off to the conference rooms and work on during the day. And we were just, you know, exploring, but I didn’t have the courage yet to leave out on my own. And then my husband had a health scare. So he had a stroke in his early 40s, which I didn’t think people had strokes in their 40s. And it was a total surprise. And he’s fully recovered, by the way all as well. But I remember sitting with him in the, in the hospital where he was recovering and thinking, I don’t want to be like, on my deathbed. Regretting never having given it a shot, you know, like not taking the leap because like, what’s the worst that could happen? I can take this leap, try to do this business thing. If it doesn’t work out, I just go back and get another job. Right. So that was kind of the that catalyst, that pivotal moment for me where I made the decision. I wanted to do it. And then I think it was like, a year after that, that I took the leap. So

Laura Kåmark
I love that I I think we all kind of have some of those stories where like there was that point where we’re like, it’s time for something to change and I am in control of my destiny. I mean, we’re the one ones, if it’s not just gonna happen for us, we’re the ones that have to kind of take those scary steps and go out and try it. Make it happen. So I love. I love that you did that is, yeah, I mean, I’ve been following you in the online space for years. And it’s, it’s been really fun to watch your business evolve. And so you get just really amazing results for your clients.

Sarah Guilliot
Thank you. And it’s been amazing to do you know, when you first go out, you don’t know anybody, like developing the community and the friendships like yours. And, you know, a lot of our mutual friends and really creating that. That new community around myself has been amazing. And I’ve, I’ve never felt alone since those first days. So it’s, yeah, just surrounding ourselves with these uplifting voices is so important. And so yeah,

Laura Kåmark
so would you say you found that kind of community early on when you went online? Um,

Sarah Guilliot
yeah, I mean, when I first went online, I was building out an Etsy shop. So I was finding community inside that the Etsy community, I was building out. I was selling these specialized Photoshop mock up files to a particular kind of Etsy shop owner, who was selling drinkware online, which is a hard thing to photograph. And so I started joining some, like Facebook groups and communities with that. And then I started doing courses, and I didn’t know how to do courses. So I joined, I joined courses about creating courses, and began making friends in there. And that’s probably the first time that like, when I was making friends inside the Etsy community, that was customer friends. But once I enrolled in online courses, to learn how to do my own course, that’s when I started getting around other business owners trying to do the same thing as me. So it was more my peers. And so that’s where it kind of began. And it’s mostly, you know, people back on Facebook, but Facebook has been such a friend to me in terms of having all these communities to meet people like you. And

Laura Kåmark
I love Facebook for that right there. I mean, I feel like I went out on my own, I would say in 2015, which is when I left corporate, or when corporate left me. And I was also you know, a new mom shortly thereafter, and was feeling really lonely. And it took until really like 2020 to feel like I found my people. And so it for me, it was really lonely for a long time. i It wasn’t until I started joining like mastermind groups, and the group that you and I actually had met and where I really started kind of finding the people that I was like, these are my people. These are the people I’ve been looking for, to come hang out with and like, have these like lifelong friendships with and we can all sit and like talk about funnels and sales pages. All those like online business techie jargon stuff that just lights me up.

Sarah Guilliot
I know I love it. I love being around people like you, because we that’s we could talk about that all day long. And then Voxer being like invented, there’s been a real, a real push toward developing even deeper relationships, because you’re like, oh, let’s connect on boxer. Next thing you know, you’re talking all day long more to your Voxer friends than your family.

Laura Kåmark
And for those in our audience who don’t know what Voxer is, it’s kind of like this walkie talkie app where you can either listen to people talk alive, as they’re leaving you this recorded message or you can listen to it later. If you’re not available around you know groups with boxer with multiple people in it, you can text in it, and you can send photos and short videos. I think there’s a 32nd cut off. But I love boxer. I have lots of boxer communications going on the daily. And I love being able to boxer while I hit the button and it connects to my Bluetooth like when I’m driving. I have exactly the driving chronicles of Laura, as one of my friends calls it. So I would love to know so you’ve done a few pivots in your business, which I think is amazing. I we were talking just yesterday about how you have recently done a pivot. And I just think it’s the thing that people don’t always talk about is when we build these businesses, the thing you start out doing is not the thing you’re going to continue to do forever. It’s going to change, it’s going to evolve. I was on a call this morning with one of my clients and I had built her website, or I’d redesigned it from a couple years ago. And there’s a ton of changes we need to make us it’s been like two years since we really touched anything on it and our business is changing. It’s evolving. It’s making tweaks and changes and I feel like people almost feel bad when they’re like Oh, I’m changing what I’m doing and we shouldn’t Yeah, okay. And that’s the natural progression business.

Sarah Guilliot
Mm hmm. Yeah, I’ve often felt bad. I felt like, Oh, I’m so flaky, I can’t make a decision, why can I stick with something, but each time I’ve made a change, if I look back, it’s because I was more informed, like, I tried something out, didn’t quite work the way I wanted to, I’m feeling called in a different direction. And then I, I keep going. So I’ve, it’s like, all mindset, you know, you gotta, like, stop thinking about this as a failure. This is actually this is smart. This is us experimenting, testing, tweaking, iterating, and changing and moving forward as and things change out in the world, too. So yeah, I find that it’s like this evolution. It’s not just an evolution for my business, but also my, my personality and my personal growth. And even, like, just acknowledging that the choices I make today, I don’t have to feel like their permanence has been good for me to like, I know that, probably down the road, I’m gonna get away from services for right now. Just make it like services is for me right now. And making that change from design to just copy only feels really solid right now. And I feel really excited about it, but also not putting pressure on myself that this is my permanent decision. This is what I will be for, till the end of days. It helps it you know, it lightens it up and lets me feel more free, which is what I want out of business. For the most part, anyway.

Laura Kåmark
Absolutely. I feel like that’s why a lot of us do this is for the freedom, that freedom it provides for sure. And like and that goes in freedom in our being able to go live our life the way we want and freedom to make the changes we want in our business. I love that. And I’m excited to see where you go with all this because I love your copy you write amazing copy. So I’m it’s it’s very exciting things. I want to talk a little bit about the tech side of things of your business because as you know, I do website and tech integrations and I just love geeking out over all that stuff. So can you talk to me what platform is your website on?

Sarah Guilliot
Yeah, so it’s on Squarespace right now. When I first got started my business, I tried using WordPress and found that WordPress doesn’t work with my brain. I need the limitations of a program like Squarespace and I was struggling to make it look the way I wanted it to look on WordPress also that was years ago, WordPress has changed a lot. So yeah, I’m on Squarespace right now. I actually I was on Kajabi briefly and then I came. I came back to Squarespace. Back I thought

Laura Kåmark
you’re on Kajabi. Yeah,

Sarah Guilliot
this is just really recent. Because I was, as you know, and your listeners don’t know, I was trying to hone in my design services to like what platform will I focus on? And I was focusing on Kajabi. But then I I had focused for years on Squarespace. And so I had people coming out of the woodwork that knew me as the Squarespace person. And so then I was doing a lot of Squarespace work and I’m like, why am I paying so much money for Kajabi right now, and I’m not using any of the course aspects of it. I’m not using the email part of it because I use ConvertKit. It just it really didn’t make sense, the return on investment. So I’m like, back to Squarespace. And now since I’m not doing design work, it doesn’t matter what platform. So even easier. Love that.

Laura Kåmark
And then you also have a free course you too. That’s a challenge, right?

Sarah Guilliot
Yeah, yeah, I have a free five day sales page challenge. And that is actually on member vault. So yeah.

Laura Kåmark
Can you talk to us a little bit? I know I’m in your challenge. And I was just blown away with it. I would love to hear have you tell our audience just explain a little bit about the challenge that you offer?

Sarah Guilliot
Yeah, so um, I find that sales pitches are really intimidating for people. And, you know, if you’re at one point in business, you might be ready to hire someone to help you write it and build it. But if you’re earlier stage in business, you’re probably going to DIY it and it’s really scary. And so people end up like not doing it at all or they just don’t launch because they’re terrified. So I wanted to create this challenge to let people have, I don’t know take the pressure off themselves. And it’s it’s mostly focused on copy. There’s a few design tips but kind of letting them know you know, these are the basic parts that are on the typical sales page that you want to think about and acknowledging how they are probably feeling so how Helping them understand it’s okay. If you feel intimidated, don’t feel like your page has to be long and complicated. And there’s some techniques, you know, you can start with these easy sections first and build momentum and then get into the more difficult pieces. And I just wanted it to be a welcoming space that makes people feel calmer about the whole thing and just helps them get started. And also, I have ADHD and I do not like to wait for like five days challenges. So I made it accessible all at once. So you could do all five days in one sitting if you want to binge it, which is how I consume all.

Laura Kåmark
I love that. And then I am going to link that up in the show notes. So people can check that out and get into your challenge and into your world war. Yeah, thank you. And then you recently have been very active. Or maybe you’ve actually probably always been pretty active on Instagram. And you did a like a 30 days of tips.

Sarah Guilliot
Yeah. So me being active online comes in waves. I’m like, Oh, here’s what I want to advertise that I do. And I’m gonna be visible, visible, visible, and then I retreat for a while, or I’m in a pivot, and I’m like, Oh, I don’t know what to say. So yeah, recently, I was like, I want to be more visible, you know, I want to share my knowledge online. So I decided, I’m going to do this 30 day challenge on Instagram, and just do stories, giving a tip each day. And I’m also a very spontaneous person, like, I’m learning to batch but for the most part, I don’t like to batch I like to do things spontaneously, because when I sit down and plan, I get intimidated later, because perfectionism leaks in. So I was like, I’m just gonna think of the tip of the day of, and then do it live, you know, like, record a will not live but record a story, and then post it. And so I actually made this a couple this with like a walking challenge, because I love to walk every day as you know, Lord, because I’m constantly boxing you from the trail. But I gave myself a challenge to walk 20,000 steps and give a tip each day. So that was another, like fun way to make it entertaining for me. And it was interesting, because things evolved, things change, just like with business. You know, it was like very parallel to business. I had started with this challenge to do 20,000 steps. I did that for two days. And then my knees and ankle were like, no, no, you can’t do that. We need to do less steps. And I started with these, like long stories on Instagram that I have to like type in, you know, text on and put the transcription thing on there and everything. And that started getting shorter and easier, until I was just doing a reel and like, well, I’ll just make one simple, quick tip, just the length of one reel, not editing it and like dropping in text appears at different points, I’m just going to be walking with my phone and record a reel and then post it. And so it was really cool, because I got to see, I got to see myself learning and iterating on the fly within this 30 days. And some days I was like, What have I already shared about that it was like coming up with a new thing. Got a little challenging, but I did, I did successfully come up with 30 days worth of things. And now, like I did this just I was like, I’m not putting any expectations on this. I just want this to be fun. And if something comes of it, great, at least I’ll have some content. And it’s been amazing because it’s created this bank of content, which I’ve been able to repurpose into my email list. I’m getting a little bit on tick tock. I’m starting the beginnings of recording of starting a podcast for myself, I’m just recording everything ahead of time, and then I’ll release it. So I’m pulling from this 30 days for that. And opportunities are starting to come to me because of this like right from my email list. And it was it was really amazing to like everyone says if you you know, if you pull back on your expectations from something and you just have fun with it, that’s when the good stuff happens. And I wasn’t sure I believed it. But it really is happening that way right now.

Laura Kåmark
That’s so good. I love that. No, I didn’t know all these things. Were in the works for one. That’s exciting. And yeah, the I was so impressed watching you because I have not been very visible in the sense of like video reels and all the things. And so I know and I know other people too. I have other friends in the online space who are like terrified to get on video. Do you have any tips for them? And me? Yeah.

Sarah Guilliot
Yeah, so it’s I don’t know. I mean, I’ve kind of slowly worked into being okay to put my face on video over the years. Like, even when I first started my business when I was doing the Etsy stuff, I had videos on YouTube, but I didn’t show my face, it was just my voice and my screen. And then I was putting them on blogs. And I found success from that. And people actually got a lot of compliments on my voice on my YouTube videos are like, Oh, your voice is so common. So that was nice. I was like, Oh, all right, I guess I sound okay. And then, you know, the first few times I put my face on camera, I was like, Oh, this is, this is horrible. I hate this. I’m like, seeing every flaw in my skin and teeth and hair. And then I was like, Well, you know, if I, if I just plow ahead and kind of stop focusing on my flaws, and kind of just ignore those, just be myself, you know, try to get good lighting. Just, I’m just really authentically me. And that’s something I improve upon as the years go by. But I’ve just decided when I put myself out just as me and I’m silly, and I’m animated in the way that I am i I’ve gotten good feedback from people where they’re like, Oh, I wanted to work with you. Because you had that. That video you did about women smiling with salads, and you had that ridiculous thumbnail image of yourself on the cover. And I’m like, you know, I guess good things that come from me being authentic and being on camera, even with my flaws. So now I just ignore them. And I do these videos, and I do them spontaneously. And, and, you know, I’ve done the thing where I tried to make a home studio with perfect lighting and cameras set up and researching what cameras to get. And in the end, I realized that I’m just, I’m just a spontaneous person. I like to walk outside, I like to record videos from my car. And if I do those things, and people are repelled by it, then those aren’t my people. And the people who think it’s funny, or who are like, Yeah, I do all my work in my car, too. They are my people, and they do appreciate it. And the more you do, the easier it gets.

Laura Kåmark
You love that so much. I know that I find when I’m consuming audio, which are video, which is not the way that I consume a lot of things i i Like I prefer to read things. And so I find when I’m listening to someone, and it’s like, so perfect. There’s no arms. It’s just so it feels very, very scripted. And like, it’s relaxed, and it feels very unattainable. And again, it’s comparison, which I know I shouldn’t be doing. But I still do it because I’m human, we’ll do it. But that’s the thing, like when I watched like a webinar, and it’s just done. So perfect. So flawless. And I’m like, I’m How am I going to create something that’s that perfect and flawless. And then I tried to get away from that thought process and go into, it’s okay for me to do it my way, which is going to have spelling errors. I’m going to have a link that’s wrong. And I’m going to look up the ceiling a lot because I do that when I think I noticed myself do it on calls with clients all the time. I’m like, let me look up at the ceiling for my, all the answers

Sarah Guilliot
there. I look off to the sides.

Laura Kåmark
And then if someone doesn’t like the fact that I have a spelling error, they can go away, because those aren’t my people. Like, it doesn’t happen. Because the thing I was finding for so many years is I was so worried it had to be perfect that I wasn’t doing it. I wasn’t putting it out there. I wasn’t putting myself out there. I wasn’t getting visible. I wasn’t putting hitting publish on the web page or a blog post or anything, because I was so overly consumed with it being perfect. And I think that’s the thing that we all need to work harder to get away from is that it doesn’t need to be perfect. And when it’s not perfect, and we’re just us. It feels better anyway. And people respond to that the right people respond to that.

Sarah Guilliot
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, early days for me recording videos, I definitely, I say um, a lot. I definitely like went through some editing or I had to edit out a bunch of arms, or sometimes I’ll record something. It’s filled with arms and weird noises. And I’m like, I can’t be bothered to edit this. I’m just gonna rerecord it and I delete it. And then since I’ve said it through once already and I have notes I say it through smoother the second time and then I’m, I’m too lazy to edit a bunch. Like I want it to be easy. I want it to be fast. So like I said,

Laura Kåmark
I didn’t I didn’t even hear it. It didn’t even, I didn’t even know.

Sarah Guilliot
Right? Yeah, so it just yeah, it just takes practice. And it really, you should try doing like a 10 day or 15 Day or 30 day challenge, because it’s, you don’t have time to edit those things, make them short, make them fast. And then after doing it for 30 days in a row, you’re gonna get kind of used to it. And you’ll get, you’ll, you know, you’ll find your way. You might even say less, um, because you heard yourself the first 10 times I

Laura Kåmark
think the thing that stops me is I’m always wondering, like, what is the thing that I would go and talk about? What’s What’s the thing such as websites? Is it integration? Like, what’s that thing that I could go in and talk about? And like, really get a little more granular with that would bring value and get some aha was? And that’s again, like the perfectionism showing up being like, Oh, I don’t know what the thing is. So then it stops me from doing just putting something out there.

Sarah Guilliot
Yeah, you know, the funny thing about that is, you’d be surprised how many more things you’ll think of when you’re forced to, like if you said, I’m going to talk about tech integrations with WordPress, and I don’t know airtable. And you’re like, I can only think of one thing and then set day two comes and you’re like, Oh, I could talk about, you know, this plugin. And day three comes and you’re like, Oh, I could talk about that mistake, I made that one time and how people could avoid it. Like when you’re forced to think you start thinking deeper and deeper. And you discover, like your point of view on things, because you just kept thinking about that one thing. So it’s, it’s really rewarding, actually. But you can always start with like, a 10. Day, don’t put the pressure of 30 days.

Laura Kåmark
30 days, 20,000 steps? Oh, I love that. So I would love to know, what would you say? Were some of the fears and doubts you had when you were first starting out?

Sarah Guilliot
Yeah, so early on, like just the launching business phase, I had a lot of fears about legal stuff. Any government organizations, like terrifying to me? So I was worried about like, oh, how do I make an LLC? And what about taxes, and it really held me back for a long time. And I, I learned that I can pay people to do those things for me. And like, for the longest time, it was like, Well, I gotta figure this out, or I gotta, you know, ask a friend. But paying somebody is expensive, but it got me moving forward. Like I paid a lawyer to help me with my LLC, I have a good friend of mine, she does did completely on her own for free. Clearly, you know, just like setting up her LLC, it was like the cost of filing it. And for me, it was like $2,000, but at the time, I had some corporate money to spend on that. So paying professionals to help you with some of the scary stuff that you know, if it’s if it’s applicable, that helps. So that was like my getting started fears. And then as I moved more into the services space, a big fear for me was getting on calls, like discovery calls with people, even though I’ve been on Zoom, tons, like in my job, you know, presenting to teams and stuff. Like, it wasn’t so much that I couldn’t get on a zoom call. But when you’re getting on a call, hoping to sell to someone or you know, as a potential client, it’s a whole different thing. I was really scared. I tried to find these ways to avoid it. I was like, What business can I create, where I don’t have to get on calls. But I, I discovered that I, it’s really important to me that my clients and I like have a good vibe together. And I feel comfortable with them. And I really want all my clients to be my new BFF. So and that I actually need that I need to get on zoom with them and read their body language and see their face when I’m talking to them. And so I actually can’t strip that out I otherwise I would feel uncomfortable with the work going forward. And so that realization coupled with some of the amazing programs I’ve been in and the trainings, you know, like you and I would Sarah Massey, with pa Silva. I’ve gotten all these new techniques, and then just doing it more and more, I’ve gotten more and more confidence. So I say those are like the major fears that I had to work through.

Laura Kåmark
I love that and I love how you overcame those fears I can relate so much to I have to get on Zoom calls for with potential clients because for the same thing I need to feel connected to them. Because a lot of my clients do continue to be very good friends of mine, like yes, I love my clients. For best clients, and I need to know that we’re gonna have good enter, our energy is going to be matched. Because that’s, that’s how I connect with them. And I also record all my calls because I can then be more present on the call, and not have to worry that my notes make sense, because I’ve just gone back too many times and looked at that note, I’m like, what did that mean? So I just heard very early on, I started recording all the calls. And I had someone told me once they were like, do you ever even go back? And like, you would be surprised how much I go back?

Sarah Guilliot
Yeah. And just amazing. Yeah, I do that to you go. Oh, my gosh,

Laura Kåmark
who funny. So what would you say you’re doing? That’s being bold? In the industry, something you’re doing different from everyone else? Yeah. So I feel like I’m kind of,

Sarah Guilliot
you know, coming from a user experience background, always thinking about the user, I’m sort of fighting the good fight for a great user experience and sales pages. And so I do a few things differently, I think then many others are, I think about things in a different way. And that’s like three, three things, really. One is empathy. So I want the sales page copy to self with hope, and not fear, there’s just so much of this teaching people to agitate the pain of their customers. And that just feels really hostile to me. And I think you can acknowledge people’s pain and problems, and encourage them in a more hopeful way than in this fearful way. So that’s one thing is to empathy. And then transparency, especially around pricing, having the price there for people to find and having it discoverable like high on the page, or you can click to it and see it quickly. And I knew that was what I wanted, for my experience. And I’ve surveyed 100 people, and almost all of them said the same thing. So that’s something that I encourage my clients to do, I would never force them to do that if they don’t want to. But that’s a that’s a big one for me. And then the length of your page, because there’s so many people out there with their miles long sales pages that you have to scroll and scroll to read. And it’s it’s stressful. It’s overwhelming for people. And I don’t think that it’s a good experience to put out in the world to have these sales pages that take 30 minutes to consume. So those are the I want to make things smaller, simpler and more transparent. And yeah, those are kind of the things that I put out into the world.

Laura Kåmark
I love all those things. I am not a fan of the never ending sales page. I am a big fan of let’s keep it simple like and I want to see what the price is because that’s the first thing I look at. And so if I have to scroll for days, and then it’s like hidden, it’s a little frustrating and feels a little hard, especially if I’m on mobile. I’m like, where

Sarah Guilliot
is it? Oh, yes, mobile 100%.

Laura Kåmark
I love how you’re doing those things different. I agree that for a very long time, it was like agitate the pain point agitate the pain point agitate the pain point. And I love the switch that I’m hearing you. And then also there’s some other people that I talked with that talk about, you know, it needs to be more hopeful and like positive changes. And let’s talk about the like the what the dream could look like instead of like, here’s those pain points like things that hurt instead of like, let’s talk about what it could be. Let’s talk about this paint this really nice picture of how lovely life could be. With all the freedom and sitting beach relaxing

Sarah Guilliot
with your dogs? Yes.

Laura Kåmark
Oh my goodness. So then I would love to know, how would you say that you’re making waves in the industry? disrupting things?

Sarah Guilliot
Yeah, I guess it’s kind of that same sort of thing is that emphasis on hope and then the shorter sales pages, I think people really just don’t believe that. It could be better. When you see when the people you buy from that are like making a million dollars, have a huge sales page with 500 testimonials and you have to scroll and scroll. It’s hard to believe that that’s not required for success. And I would I would love to see some of these more successful sellers. Test that like test their long page against a shorter page and see what happens because I would bet that they’ll get even more sales. If the page is shorter than they’re getting right now, they already have a huge audience. They’re going to be successful. Right. But I think they would be even more successful. I love the simpler

Laura Kåmark
page you’re putting out into the world right there that’s making ways. I love that. No, and I agree I there was a sales page I was looking at recently. And like, it’s a very big name in the online space. She’s got, you know, a bajillion followers. And she’s got good programs to like, she’s amazing. I’m in a bunch of her programs. And the testimonials like, I don’t know that I read a single one of them. But that could because I already just love and appreciate her so much in the work she does. Yeah, but I could do without quite so many testimonials to be quite honest.

Sarah Guilliot
Yeah, I had a I had a similar experience to but I don’t know, in kind of a different way where this is another person that I followed for a long time as well. And her page was fairly long. But she had enough testimonials that she actually had a separate Testimonials page, you might know who I’m talking about. And I loved that. I was like, Yay, you didn’t clutter up the pages. I mean, there were some on that page. But they had this whole other page. And I did go over there. And I read almost all of them. Because I want it I wasn’t sure I wasn’t sure if I wanted to buy this program. And I really enjoyed that. And I I respected her more and appreciated her and felt like she cared about me more by not forcing me to look at them. And that was like an I don’t normally tell people to link off of your sales page. But in this case, it made a ton of sense, because she had so many testimonials, but they were really powerful, too, for a complicated program.

Laura Kåmark
Oh, I love that. See? And I Yes, I like the results page, or what else? Are those called results or client or case studies study client results? Yeah, absolutely. Because again, like you said, it doesn’t then clutter up the sales page. I’m not saying don’t put testimonials on your sales page, like write them on there. But maybe pare it down?

Sarah Guilliot
Yes, not 100. Oh, my

Laura Kåmark
goodness, Sarah, I could just talk to you for hours. And we do unboxer all day long. But we are getting close to the end of our time today. And I have one final question that I would love to ask you that I asked everyone who comes on the show. And that is what is one piece of advice you would give someone when they’re first starting out in their business that would help them be bolder, be louder and make waves in their business.

Sarah Guilliot
Yeah, I would say it’s kind of along the lines of the authenticity we were talking about earlier. And that is if you don’t feel like you are a bold, loud person. That doesn’t mean you can’t make waves, that to find your way to make waves. And maybe that’s a quiet way, maybe it’s a slower way. Or maybe it’s more of a behind the scenes way that you can make big changes. You don’t have to be an extrovert to do that. And if you don’t feel like you’re bold, that’s okay. Just find your way. And then just keep keep going. Keep at it and find a community of friends that are going to encourage you when you have those, those downtime. Like I have you.

Laura Kåmark
I love that so much. I think that’s a great message to put out into the world. Thank you so much for being on the show today. Can you let our listeners know where they can come find you and hang out with you online? Yeah,

Sarah Guilliot
for sure. And thank you for having me, Laura. Um, you can find me at Sarah design.com that Sarah with an H and my challenge is easy to find on my website there. And I hang out over on Instagram a lot and that is at Sarah design agency.

Laura Kåmark
Wonderful. I will link that up in the show notes. Thank you for being here today. This was so much fun. Thanks, Laura.

Laura Kåmark
Thanks so much for listening to this week’s episode. Be sure to check out the show notes at Laurakamark.com/podcast. And if you’re ready to grow and scale your business, and your current website is outdated and doesn’t reflect the magic you bring and the results you get for your clients. Go to Laurakamark.com To find out how I can help bring your vision to life. Thanks so much for listening. See you next week. Bye now!