Laura Kåmark
Hey everyone. Welcome to the Be Bold Make Waves Podcast, a show bringing you inspiring stories of women who are growing and scaling their business. I’m your host, Laura Kåmark, a website and tech integration specialist who works with online business owners who love their work and not their website. Join me as we have incredible conversations about business mindset, productivity, and of course, the website and tech behind the business. Let’s go ahead and dive in to this week’s episode.

Laura Kåmark
Hello, and welcome to today’s show. I am so excited for you all to be here. Those of you who don’t already know me, my name is Laura Kåmark. I’m a website and tech integration specialist who works with women who love their work, but not their website. I am so excited to introduce you to my guest today, Elyse Sparkes. Elyse is a certified core and pelvic floor movement rehab specialist, a certified personal trainer, and a registered yoga teacher. She’s passionate about helping people exercise without peeing their pants, relieve chronic constipation, and improve overall pelvic health all through movement. She draws from her background as a professional dancer, personal trainer and yoga teacher. She is certified restore your core teacher and has studied the pelvic fascia. Through francolin method. Elyse is the creator of the hashtag be kind body mind a method that helps people be more kind to themselves as they build strength, flexibility, balance and confidence. Elyse, thank you so much for being on the show today. I am so excited to have you. Can you tell our audience just a little more about who you are and how you help people?

Elyse Sparkes
Yes, definitely. I’m so excited to be here. Um, yeah, everything that you just said is accurate. Right now I specialize in pelvic floor and core movement rehab. And yeah, so many people deal with issues like incontinence, chronic constipation, pain, with intercourse, just all kinds of pelvic pain. And so that’s really what I specialize in now all through looking at alignment, building strength, movement practices. And even just simple some simple self massage techniques and things people can do throughout their day to help alleviate those symptoms and just feel better in their body. I love that so

Laura Kåmark
much. And I was introduced to you, we actually live very close to each other. And I took a class from you because I started seeing a physical therapist for some pain I was helped having in my lady regions. And it was so interesting, because I have I have two children. And my oldest or my youngest is now four. And so for the last four years, I was in so much pain. And I had no idea that it was something that could be fixed. And in going to physical therapy, and then learning being introduced to you and taking one of your classes. I was like, I’m not in pain anymore. Like this can be fixed. And it was so interesting, because we had talked after one of the classes on a zoom call. And afterwards, and we were talking and you were saying how passionate you are about really letting people know because I mean, I have a ton of moms in my audience. And I remember like, as a first time mom, it was it’s like a joke of like, Oh, welcome to motherhood now every time you sneeze up a little bit.

Elyse Sparkes
I have so absolutely yeah, it’s just almost accepted as just a thing that happens and almost expected to happen. And just like oh, okay, now I’ve had good to know, I’m going to be P when I hit PS, which is going to be we’ll call Yeah, feeding deeds and IP, or like, hold back on some activities or fitness stuff that you want to do like running, jumping. We, you know, also another joke is like jumping on the trampoline, you know that people just know that they’re not going to do because of it. But even as a fitness professional for like 15 plus years. Before that. Even I like was aware that there was a pelvic floor area and was aware about it, but didn’t know that we also didn’t have to live like this. And so that’s why I’m so passionate about it, because I’m like, even people who are in movement, like need this information also. So just the everyone’s who’s experiencing this, like there’s just so much more information than what we’ve been getting. And what we kind of see in magazines and just like simple Google searches and just the general like, Zeitgeist is that the right word like the general understanding of it is out Um, usually the answer that we get is all about key goals, for example, and I’m just so passionate about being like, there’s so much more. And some of it is, you know, complex and might take a healing journey. And the moment, it’s the simple stuff that you can actually just start out. And, yeah, I think another thing also is that people who give birth, usually, because it’s very common to start having these symptoms around the pelvis, that people have a little bit of exposure to it, but also people who don’t give birth experiences too. And I feel like especially for that population of people, they’re just like, no information, no help. It’s also sometimes an area that’s really hard to talk about, and brings up a lot of sort of, like shame and embarrassment, talking about elimination, functions, sexual functions, you know, just pelvic organs is just kind of, can be a little bit embarrassing to even bring up to your general doctor. So like, I just want to get the information out there and just talk about it in the way that’s like, it’s okay to talk about constipation. It’s okay to talk about being a little bit, you know, like, these are things that, you know, everybody does. And if you experience those things like there there are, we, there are a path of healing.

Laura Kåmark
I love that so much. And I remember it was when we were talking and you were like, I just want if I could stand on my soapbox, I just want people to know, like, there’s something we can do to get past this. And that was the thing that again, for four years, I was going to my doctor and being like, I’m in pain, they were doing ultrasounds, they’re trying to find out like, Is something going on? They’re like, everything looks fine. I’m like, well, that’s great. I’m still in pain. And something isn’t right. And it took four years for them to finally say to me, oh, maybe you should try a pelvic floor therapist. And I was like, what is that? How is that a thing? And I found a woman that I’m going to in the area locally, and she is booked out. I mean, their whole facilities booked out for months. So I don’t get an appointment. And it’s for four months from now. And luckily, they call when there’s a spot that opens up. But I was like, This is insane. How is how are you guys so busy? They’re like, well, because we’re really good at what we do. And no one talks about this and not a lot of people are doing

Laura Kåmark
it. And a lot of people experience the symptom. Yeah, but no one talks about it. So that is what we are here to do

Laura Kåmark
today. excited to have you on the show, as I already said, but I’m just I’m thrilled because again, like this was meeting you was has literally changed my life and taken off. I was in pain for all these years. And now I’m not. So I want my audience to hear about this. I want them to hear what are some things if someone is experiencing pain? What would be something that they could do? Where can they go for resources?

Elyse Sparkes
Well, I always I’m like a huge also, like, I should be a pelvic floor physical therapist marketer myself, because I always recommend that people do go to either pelvic floor physical therapist, or there’s also occupational therapists who specialize in the pelvis. And just to be clear, what I do is a little bit different than that. So I am not a physical therapist, I like to make that really clear. But I suggest that everybody go to see if you can get an appointment, go to see a pelvic floor physical therapist. And then after that, we’ll have a lot more information about what’s really actually going on in the pelvis. And then from there, what I do is I look at things like everyday posture and alignment, that can really influence the way that your pelvis feel. Do a lot of strengthening for the musculature around the pelvis so it can be supported. Even just breath breathing practices are really really important. A lot of us are holding a lot of tension throughout the date without even realizing it. Like kind of the idea of like clenching the pelvic floor area hugging in even like hugging your butt or clenching your job. These are all pieces that are related to each other. So even just awareness of how you are sitting, standing, walking, exercising, operating in your day can be really effective for reducing pain. I forgot the actual question that you asked me but

Laura Kåmark
it was no I thought it was what where can people go to kind of get more information and find out like, seems like ah I’m in pain i, this is me, you got, you’re talking about me, what do I What do I do? So you I feel you answer that I’m saying first step is go find a physical therapist, pelvic floor physical therapist or an occupational therapist, and then

Elyse Sparkes
tell me how you help people in your business. Yeah, so I work with people, either one on one or in group programs. And I also have virtual workshops that help inform people about their bodies and just learn educational aspects. I think for the pelvic floor, specifically, having a basic understanding of the anatomy is really, really important foundational depth. Because I think that unless you’re in biology class, or like, you know, in anatomy class and getting very specific to the region, I think we just tend not to know, really what is going on in the base of our pelvis. And, you know, again, like I said, there’s kind of like a cultural, probably societal, like element of, you know, shame and embarrassment, this is something we talk about, but like, you need to know the anatomy of your genitals, you need to know the anatomy of these things that are so important to the functions that you do every single day. So I do a little bit of that just teaching them basic anatomy in a way that like, everybody can understand, you know, and very, like, plain simple terms and words that we use every day. So that, you know, you can immediately apply the thing to yourself and to your body. So there’s an education, so on factors and awareness, just gaining some more body awareness of like, what I mentioned before, like, even just being aware of, are you holding tension are or can are, are you not able to find engagement at all. And, you know, just having an awareness. And, you know, I know I said about nonverbals before, but also for people who have given birth, it’s often really challenging to reconnect to this area after there’s been an element of drama, let’s say, in the birthing process. And so, you know, reconnecting in that way, for everyone else, also, just having awareness and reconnecting. And then, and then as far as the movement goes, we’re building train, we’re releasing tension. We are kind of balancing out the structures so that the pelvic floor can do its job. And I think this is another sort of like, confusing element to, if you’re just to look in a magazine or just read a basic article online, it will be like Kegel, Kegel, Kegel and Kegel are generally thought of as the contraction and release of the pelvic floor area. And there’s words that go along with that, that gets talked about, like I, or weak, or, you know, strong or whatever. And in a way, I almost get, like, I wish that we could just take all those words to the side. And really just look at more of a balancing out of the structure so that it can function. Like for example, a lot, I think a lot of people think that they, they want to get tighter, and they want a stronger pelvic floor. And while there, there is an element of that that is true, we also want to be able to release and open and we need to be able to do both of those action. So I think about it more like balancing it out. So the core and pelvic floor can be really reflexive and respond to the action that you need to do in your day. So we do a lot of that. And yeah, just also look really from head to toe at everything, really, um, to the area and you know, things that seem really unrelated like your feet can really play a big role in the picture. So that’s why I love looking at it from the lens because it’s really kind of like a full body really, you know, holistic approach to helping heal these symptoms and just feel better and stronger in your body overall.

Laura Kåmark
I love that so much I got so much out of the class I took a restore your core fitness class from you and I was envisioning and like okay, I have not done a workout class since before I got pregnant with my, my now six year old and I was like, Oh, how’s this gonna go? And it was very different than what I was in listening because I was picturing like, Okay, we’re gonna sweat, there’s gonna be a lot of movement, anything before. And it was very different than that it was, like you said, there was a lot of breathing, it felt like a lot more like internal, like from within instead of external. So like less crunches, more or less do slow breathing and like focus on being in tune with the movement. And it was really interesting, because I know like, my first class I did, I was like, wow, I am sore. And I didn’t even break a sweat.

Elyse Sparkes
Yes, yeah, I know, when people come in, like, they think that they’re gonna get a workout workout, I’m always a little bit nervous, because I’m like, it is, but it’s not going to feel like that. Yeah, so the way that I really like to think about it is we’re doing it especially in that class, and in the one on one sessions and the workshops as well. It’s like, we’re really looking more like about repatterning habitual patterns, for lack of a better word, repeating that word, but we’re looking at like, repatterning how your body functions so that you can go on and not have to think about it so much. Like when you’re picking up your kid, when you’re moving something heavy, when you’re running, when you’re jumping. When you’re laughing, you know that we’ve repattern it to a point where it kind of knows what it’s supposed to do to for example, like, make sure that you’re not paying when you don’t want to be paying. And, yeah, and the class is very, like alignment focused. I also think about it sometimes is like the bridge from what you may or may not be doing in your physical therapy work, kind of like a bridge from that type of work into maybe a more focused lens. But we’re definitely not, I don’t think there’s a crunch in sight in that class, or really very much. Even fully on your back, only doing something like on your back, like a more traditional like, like core quote unquote, type workout. And the reason for that is that I mean, there is a little bit of that, as you know, but um, the reason for that is because we’re really trying to train how you move throughout your day, like you’re not on your back all the time, only doing that you’re standing, you’re standing up from a chair, or you’re, you’re taking a kid from a car seat, to like probably probably a, you know, a kid with flailing arms and legs all about that, like you’re taking your kid from this side, from your left side over and putting them down on your right side, like you’re doing these things throughout the day. And so we do a lot of standing rotation, hip hinges, even upper body mobility, because again, like I said before it all relief, and we’re, we want it to be really mimicking the places that you’re seeing your symptoms come on in your life.

Laura Kåmark
Oh, I love that so much. And that was exactly like, what I felt that I got out of it was learning more about, you know, working on with the movements that I do every day not doing a bunch of push ups and crunches and burpees.

Elyse Sparkes
Yeah. And I mean, I love those do, but it’s just helpful to slow down sometimes. And it’s helpful to kind of like, take a look at even like, how, what is your engagement process, when you’re gonna go do a crunch or a plank, or a burpee? You know, like, I find that it’s really, really helpful to like, go way back to the beginning, like backup a lot, that doesn’t always have to take that much time, you know, like, you can kind of process through it. First, everybody’s different. But for some people, like even a couple of weeks and, and apply it to those activities, or even do those activities while you’re doing movement rehab. They can go like really hand in hand. But it’s so important to like, really kind of take that lens and look at how everything working together.

Laura Kåmark
I love that I felt like it was the first time I’ve ever been in a class that really felt geared towards women. Oh, like, this is stuff that as women, we’re all dealing with our pelvic floor, and some of the issues and pains were dealing with and like really focusing on restoring health and strength to that area and how it you know, that flows through to everywhere else because everything’s connected in our body. So that felt really, really good and very different again, from like something that I personally had ever really seen. danced in the class. So

Elyse Sparkes
that’s awesome. Some some feedback that I’ve gotten just about that is like, I have these pelvic models now. And even just showing people where their organs are situated inside their pelvis like that alone, I’ve noticed a lot of people’s eyes brightening and being like, Thank you, because I just didn’t really ever have that visual or never sought that out or been told that and sometimes, it’s just so helpful to have that information, okay, disappear, disappear. It also gives you so much more. What’s the word I’m looking for? I’m missing the word, but advocacy for yourself, when you then go to a different type of doctor or, you know, if, if sometimes I do have many times I do refer people out to different types of practitioners who can help in a more specific way. And it’s so helpful to then be able to point here, use the anatomical term and be like, This is what’s happening. So yeah, I think it is very supportive to be an atmosphere where we can talk about that. Bring up the subjects, and we can just kind of have like a normal conversation about it.

Laura Kåmark
Yes, absolutely. Well, I want to switch gears a little bit. And because I am a web designer and tech integration, and I love all those pieces of things. I would love to know if we can talk a little bit about like the tech side of your business, and like what you use for your website and running your programs and all those things.

Elyse Sparkes
Yeah, definitely. Um, my website is on Squarespace. Um, but I do feel like I sort of have one foot in Squarespace and one foot elsewhere. So it’s like it is on Squarespace. But it’s also not I have this other platform that I use, called simply arrow. And it is my email hosting platform is my video platform. It’s like all my automation. It’s like where my courses go through. And landing pages. It’s like all of that stuff. So I feel like I am probably gonna like, step out of Squarespace and that fully over there. But I haven’t quite done that yet. So I still have those are both my main tech pieces. I love that.

Laura Kåmark
When did you did you create your own website? Or was that something that you hired out?

Elyse Sparkes
I did create my own website. Yes. And I have hired like contractors along the way to do bits and pieces, but for the most part. Yes, I did it myself.

Laura Kåmark
That’s amazing. Um, would you say was like going to ask you I had my head. When did you take your business online?

Elyse Sparkes
So I took my business online in about 2012 or 2013. It was 2013. I actually, so I had been up until that point, I had been working as a personal trainer, and going to people’s home to do session. And then I got pneumonia. And I was could not work for a month or so. And I had this, you know, realization that that’s not good. And I kind of needed wanted to have something else that I could support my in person work base, I still even to this day, I still really do like working one on one. And I like working in person as well. But I wanted to have something else also. And so, I mean, honestly, my first thing that I sold online with like, I think I decided three days before that I was going to do it. And then I wrote like one email through my list. And maybe I don’t even remember how I had them pay me maybe I had them send me PayPal or something I don’t remember. And then I rushed real quick actually, it was only going to be a PDF that I was going to tell with like support throughout what however long it was. And then at the last minute, I was like I should make a video. Um, and so at the last minute I filmed a video in my at the time I was living in New York and people kind of like later kind of teased me about it because it was a New York backyard wasn’t really a backyard. It was just sort of a cement thing with like barbed wire in the background and Unlike broken glass, and everything, so that was the background. Um, but, you know, it actually, like, people joined it. And we did it. And I was like, I loved the feeling, I was like, This is amazing. And we had a, probably, at that time a Facebook group. And, you know, we had some sort of event Facebook at the time. And so there was like, the community aspect, and I just really loved it, it was ultimately, then I started making videos, and it was all really practical, because I noticed, you know, there were things that I would just repeat to a lot of clients, and a lot of clients needed the same type of movement. And I would, you know, write up again, like PDF and stuff, but if I could just send them a video, then, you know, they could follow that. So I started doing that, and putting those together. And then you know, as time went on, I got more advanced technology, and got automated system. And I had a really popular 21 Day Program. And that turned into a membership. And I think maybe, contrary to a lot of us trajectories, I actually decided when I had my kid, I decided I’m going to close my membership. So that stuff is all closed. But now I have new, like now in this new iteration of what I’m focusing on, have the workshops and online programs. With that.

Laura Kåmark
I love that I love hearing your story, and especially like how far we’ve come. And I also really love how you talked about you just kind of did an imperfect action, because that’s something that I love for our audience to hear about. Because I know as a recovering perfectionist, but I’m always striving to like put out things before it’s perfect, because that’s hard for me. Yeah, it’s and I hear so many success stories of when people just put it out there. Don’t worry about the broken glass and the barbed wire in the background. Because it’s you’re providing value to the people who are showing up. And that’s the important piece.

Elyse Sparkes
Yeah, yes, I just totally did. And I feel like some of it was just almost like, when you’re in the beginner’s mindset of like, you don’t know what you don’t know, I was kind of just there. And I was like, Well, I’m just gonna do it. And I did that, you know, I just was like, let’s see if this works. And, and do it. And I find sometimes I tend to operate well, in that space. I think sometimes when I learn more and no more, I that is when I tend to pull back. I’m like, Oh, now that I know that it could be like this, or there could be this piece of tech that could help me a lot. Then I start to like, slow down a little bit. So I think some of the reasons why I closed some of those things was because I was getting a little bit like too into like, Okay, well, I need lighting, I need like a proper mic. I need like all this stuff. And I’ve almost now gone back to just like doing it really raw, like, a lot of my online stuff is just a zoom recording and not like having to have, you know, I got to a point where I was having like, beach backgrounds and like, you know, doing all this stuff. And I think for me also, obviously, the times have changed. And it’s, you know, I think gone through these different time periods of what is sort of like the thing to do online. And I think now it’s just widely accepted to be like, Yeah, this is my background, this is violet. So yeah, but I think that inspired action and just doing it is like one of the most helpful things to go for.

Laura Kåmark
I love that. And I agree so much. I would love to know, what would you say some of the biggest challenges that you’ve overcome since starting your business?

Elyse Sparkes
I think the biggest challenge and the one that I feel come up again, is I think like I have a hard time delegating. And I kind of tried to do everything myself. Like doing my own work, but, um, and I think that the times when I’ve been able to hire people and the times when I’ve been able to, like, trust them with expertise, and kind of give that over like I’ve seen a more rapid like growth or success, wherever you want to call it, and it frees me up to then like be my creative mind. And actually, like, I have my hands in the work, which is I love to do what I love to do. But I also love, like, the, the behind the the back end stuff too, I actually am really interested in that and like that as well. So I have a hard time sometimes, like stepping out and, and hiring out. And so I think that that would be a challenge that I’ve come up again, many times.

Laura Kåmark
I know I can relate to that. And I’m sure plenty of our audience can as well. I found in my business when I started hiring out like I struggled for years with the copy on my website. And then finally met a copywriter who I really dived with and hired her. And I was like this is so easy like, and I don’t even really know what all the copy says on my website because I didn’t. And then I overcomplicated the design and partnered with the designer, and I did the piece that I really love, which is the build. And we work together on a lot of projects. And she does the design. And I just go and like make it look like the picture. She sent me the PDF, basically. And it’s so amazing when you’re can be like that feeling when you’re just able to work in your zone. Yeah, like, that’s amazing. And I can do all those other pieces. But it doesn’t bring me joy. Yes. And so that’s the thing that I found that when I started hiring out for those things, I saw the biggest shift in my business and in my mindset, and I started to get more growth, because I hired out which feels like it shouldn’t work that way. But it does.

Elyse Sparkes
Yeah. And I feel like it’s also somewhat of a skill in itself. Like to be like to be able to communicate, like, this is what I want. Can you help me with this? How do we like that, in itself, for me is a skill that I feel like I I do practice and I need to want to practice more. And yeah, it’s it’s such a challenge, but it’s so helpful when I do it.

Laura Kåmark
But I am such a big fan of celebrating wins. I feel like as entrepreneurs, we don’t always look back and celebrate how far we’ve come. So I would love to know, when you were kind of looking back on your journey, what’s something that you can celebrate about how far you’ve come?

Elyse Sparkes
I think that I mean, the first thing that comes to mind is that I just celebrate how many people I’ve gotten to work with, and how many, like, my favorite thing is when after I have worked with somebody and like even within an hour, let’s say and they can say I feel so much better my body, then when we started like that is just a huge celebration when for like my whole career. But I had something else also, I think what we were just talking about, like building out the systems over time that have a bit of automation, and have a bit of like this back end piece has been such an educational experience. And now when I go to set something up, if I have a new workshop, or even, you know, just a new offer. Now, I feel very confident in my ability to just be like, Okay, this email is gonna go out here, this email is gonna go out here, and they, I want the customer experience, like I want them to go through the path, and then I want them to be able to receive this. And like it kind of just, I can do that with a lot more ease and a lot quicker now. And I feel like just on the tech side of things, that is a huge thing that I celebrate that I kind of like get those pieces and it’s always changing, right? Like it always it always changing. So there’s, there’s always an evolution with it. But I feel like right now those those things come a lot easier.

Laura Kåmark
I love that so much like that is something that I always strive like when I work with a client that I want them even though I plenty of clients that never want to touch the back end of their site. I had a client who was we’re messaging the other day, and she’s like, You got me to a place where she’s like, on a whim, I did this webinar and I was able to make a copy of this other page that we already have built. And she’s like, I did it. I did it all on my own. I was like, that’s amazing. And that felt so good to me that I was able I’ve built it for my client and now she’s able to go in through the training we’ve done and like make a copy and go in and like put in the replay and send it out to our list. I’m like That’s incredible. And I love that because I think it’s so important as entrepreneurs that we are in Howard, to make changes to our tech and under and we need to know how the tech works. And that being said, just because you should know how it works, and if you don’t want to touch it, that’s totally fine too. That’s why people like me exist because I love that stuff. And I can sit and do that all day all day long. But I do want my clients to feel empowered to go in and touch the backend, because it is so important to understand how it all works. And to have it be simple. Yeah.

Elyse Sparkes
Yes, that is so key, especially for someone who I feel like I do, and I enjoy learning about it. But it’s just not doesn’t feel like my it’s not like my zone of genius. It’s not what the background I come from. So I feel like simple and clear and like user experience friendly. Very helpful.

Laura Kåmark
So important. Yeah. Well, I have just a few more questions for you, because we are getting close to our time. But I would love to know. And I feel like this is a really fun question for you. Because I feel like a lot of what you’re doing is being really bold in the industry. So I would love to know, like, what do you feel that you’re doing that’s really bold for your industry.

Elyse Sparkes
I think it is what I mentioned before about trying to expand this knowledge beyond just the pre and postnatal population, although I love working with that population, and it’s very, very important for that population. It’s also everybody else, as well. So that’s something that I really want to do is expand the whole pelvic floor and core awareness to anyone who’s dealing with these symptoms, even if they haven’t been pregnant or haven’t given birth. So I feel like that’s a little bit different than what I’ve seen, or what I’ve experienced in in, in this field.

Laura Kåmark
I love that. So I have one more question that I asked everyone who comes on the podcast. And that is what is one piece of advice that you would give to someone when they’re first starting out in their business that would help them be bolder, be louder and make waves.

Elyse Sparkes
Think it’s that you don’t have to know it all and you probably won’t. And that’s okay. And to like what we said before, just take those inspired actions anyway. And just it can be very overwhelming to start a business when you like take in all the different aspects of it. And you’re not meant to know all about everything. So just you know, really know that you can just start with what you have, start with your offer your service, your product, whatever it is, like, just start with that. And then these pieces will build over time. You don’t have to know it all.

Laura Kåmark
I think that is such excellent advice. Thank you for sharing that. Elyse. Thank you so much for being here today. Can you share with our listeners where they can come hang out with you find out more about you work with you?

Elyse Sparkes
Yes, I’m just I’m everywhere. I’m at my name, elysesparkes.com. So that’s my website, at elysesparkes.com. I’m mostly on Instagram, also at Elyse Sparkes. So those are two great places to find me. I have a lot of, you know, resources on both of those places. And yeah, I’d love to hang out with everybody.

Laura Kåmark
Wonderful. I will leave all I’ll link all that up in the show notes. Go check out Elyse go hang out with her. Go find her on social and give her follow. She’s got lots of great information there for all of us women. Least thank you so much for being on the show today.

Elyse Sparkes
Thank you so much for having me.

Laura Kåmark
Thanks so much for listening to this week’s episode. Be sure to check out the show notes at Laurakamark.com/podcast. And if you’re ready to turn your website into a marketing machine, get more sales, save time and simplify the back into your business. Grab my free resource power integrations for your website. Head on over to Laurakamark.com/power. Thanks so much for listening. See you next week. Bye now.