Laura Kåmark
Hey everyone. Welcome to the Be Bold Make Waves Podcast, a show bringing you inspiring stories of women who are growing and scaling their business. I’m your host, Laura Kåmark, a website and tech integration specialist who works with online business owners who love their work and not their website. Join me as we have incredible conversations about business mindset, productivity, and of course, the website and tech behind the business. Let’s go ahead and dive in to this week’s episode.

Laura Kåmark
Hello, and welcome to today’s show. For those of you who don’t already know me, my name is Laura Kåmark. I’m a website and tech integration specialist works with women who love their work, but not their websites. My guest today is a conversion copywriter a copy coach wingwoman word slinger no matter what you call her, Erin Ollila believes in the power of words, and how a message can inform and even transform its intended audience. When she’s not working with big brands and small businesses to marry strategy, storytelling and SEO, you can find her hosting the top copy to me podcast, or exploring southeastern mass with her family and friends. Aaron, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Can you tell our listeners just a little bit more about kind of your backstory and how you started in the whole online space?

Erin Ollila
Of course I can. And thank you so much for having me on your show. So I came to the world of writing, knowing that I would be a writer but not knowing that I would be doing marketing, if that makes any sense. I have a career previous career in Human Resources Administration, as well as case management for the mental health field. And during that time, I went to college to get my degree in writing and communications. I did a master’s program of Fine Arts in creative writing. So I kind of assumed that like I would grow up past my HR career, and just be like teaching colleges and writing books and just being like famous altogether probably, until during the MFA, I realized it’s it’s really hard to get into college in a full time tenured position. Yes, I could be hired as an adjunct to make no money and work very hard. And, again, I had a full time job, a long term career. So I was lucky to not have to make a huge jump right away. So what I did upon graduating to stay in this literary world was I started with one of my colleagues from my MFA program, an online literary journal. So it’s actually celebrated, just celebrated its 10th year, and we’ve won awards, it was really fun to be able to not be the writer, but to be the like editor and the publisher, and just kind of support the community that like I grew up in when it came to writing. And I stayed in my traditional job, and eventually, one day, and this is back in the day, the early 2000s, where we were doing a lot of personal blogging, I found a company that was looking for a blog writer, and I thought like, Heck, yeah, like this was a great job for me, like, I don’t have to use the the academic writing that I’ve been doing, I can do something where like, I enjoy my own personal writing, so I can do it for other businesses. And it was the best move for me at the time out of my administrative career, because I learned so much about SEO, from the very early days of SEO, on how to attract people to your website. And then I was able to use my degrees of storytelling. So you know, back in the day, when we talked about marketing and SEO and writing, they were kind of like three bubbles that overlapped. What is then diagram diagram? Yes. Oh, gosh, is this the right word. So kind of like a Venn diagram that like the sweet spot was in the middle, but they were three separate things. And you know, here we are in 2023. And I think we all understand that storytelling, SEO and marketing, slash copywriting has to be that same bubble, it can’t be separate, because we need to attract people like in a way that they relate to us. So long story short, I worked at that company for a while as their Managing Editor. We created awesome content for medium sized businesses. And then after having my own children, I realized I think I want to do this for myself. Like I have the skills I have the training I’m going to jump in and it’s been a wild ride is raising wild ride raising kids and raising a business. But that is the long and short of how I went from like working in an administrative type of job to creative writing and then now into like marketing writing.

Laura Kåmark
Oh, I love that so much. I love seeing I love hearing people’s journeys. That’s always so fascinating to see it because so many of us were in Corporate before I mean, that’s what we did. That’s what we knew that was what our generation was,

Erin Ollila
like, go to college and get a job at a big company that you can stay in that has benefits. And funny enough, like, I think benefits were my biggest hesitation to starting my own business. And I will say I have the privilege of being married and having a spouse who provides us benefits, because I don’t know if I’d ever have started my business, if I had to worry about health insurance. But that comes from me working in HR and seeing a ton. And like being the person who negotiated with our insurance companies for the type of benefits. So, you know, I come from this place where it’s like, I highly value the the beauty of everything that HR offers an employee, things like payroll taxes, right, like they pay part of your payroll taxes for you. Now, you’re often no man’s land having to figure out like, wait, I charge this much. But now I have to pay that much to the government, which I’m totally fine with the taxes, but it’s like, these are all jarring things that I think that I was never taught in a creative writing program. You know, like I, my friends, they and I, we all grew up, we went to high school. And the big question was, what are you going to be when you grow up? And I was very fortunate to say, I want to be a writer, and I want to be a teacher. Like, I’m clear on what I want. But just because you know, what you want does not necessarily mean that you can like determine how that happens, right? And I don’t think back then I ever would have thought I’d be here. And I’m very grateful to be here. But I really do I find it fascinating how we can look at people’s journey and say, well, that skill that you learned in this opportunity, really, you can bring it so much into this or like using the benefits as an example like knowing what goes on behind the scenes when it comes to those or even just like paid time off, like I miss my paid time off. But we can we can create those things for ourselves in our business, right like so it’s I have all of this background in things that seem so irrelevant that I’m able to bring to my job, for my own business and for my clients business to give me such perspective that I’m so fortunate I have all of those years in like the corporate world or working in different types of jobs.

Laura Kåmark
I love that so much. So tell me how what types of clients are your kind of ideal client that you’re working with today?

Erin Ollila
Yeah, so when I started, here’s a little thing I should add to like my trend. My story of my business is when I started working for myself, I actually only worked with big brands. And when I say big brands, I mean like humongous fortune 500, mostly fortune 100 companies creating content for them. Because I grew up in a world of content and SEO. And I loved it. I loved them. But the reason I pivoted away from that slightly, even though I still have a few big brand clients is I was working on their schedule. Like it wasn’t it didn’t feel like a business, it was very much a freelancer. So if they had worked for me, great if they didn’t like let’s say, a natural end to their like content cycle ended, and they decided they were going to focus on something different like video, all of a sudden, I lost all my income. But that wasn’t about me. And I had no control over it. So that was around the same time that I kind of joined the online business world of like being in Facebook groups and getting to know other business owners going on coffee chats, figuring out like, you know how we could work together when it comes to like referrals and things like that. So around the same time, I think what happened is I saw so many other businesses just struggling with the things that I did like for work, like how do I create a content calendar in my waistline, and a lot of what I saw was people wasting their time doing things that didn’t bring them any ROI, whether it was financial or like, visibility, ROI, let’s say, and especially with their websites, I think the only reason I like really niche down into the website is I drove me crazy, that these like incredible people that I knew had the world’s worst websites. And I just wanted to like, shake them and help them at the same time because it was like, people check your website like I just I’ve hired contractors on my house in the past couple years. And I want to find them online to check the legitimacy of them. See the social proof. And where does it all boil back down to your website? And how do people make decisions on you versus another person, they could work with your website? They may find you on social but they will still go to your website because they want to see like is pricing there. Can you describe the services and a little more detail like you might talk about your services on show on social but like is it laid out on a on a services page on a website so that I’m not ranting and telling you this long story? just sum it up? Basically I think I just felt so frustrated because I I felt like a baby beginner. Even though I had the skills and the experience. i No one ever taught me a thing about business. So I knew that like exasperation and the anxiety that came with how that felt. And then I had the skills that could help my peers, like with the exasperation and anxiety that they felt about marketing. So what like I said, Well, I still retain some of my bigger brand clients, because there’s just been, you know, really beautiful long term relationships. Most of the people I work with are small to medium businesses. And that could be two person businesses, one person businesses, or someone that maybe has a team of 10 or 15. And they, they vary a lot. Like I work with someone who has a pet trainer, the next client I had was an interior designer, that I worked with coaches that I work with a SaaS company. But I will say for the most part, the ideal client I work with has some type of creative element to their business, whether it’s they’re designing someone’s house, and like they really are living in the creativity, or whether it’s that they had this awesome idea for like a tech product that they were just going all in on using their skills to kind of put it out there on the world and see if it could help other people. So yeah, that was a very long explanation of who I like to work. And my apologies on that.

Laura Kåmark
Don’t apologize, I love that. I think I mean, you hit on a really important thing for me as a web designer that I do the same thing. Like to me, the website is so important, because that’s what I look for. When I’m trying to research someone. It’s interesting to me too, how often I’m like, I see someone post on social and I go to their profile, and they don’t have a website listed. And I’m like, what’s your website? How do I find you and, and I know, I know how scary it can be, especially when people are starting out and like they don’t want like, the personal people they know, on Facebook to know what they’re doing. Because it’s scary to be visible. And everyone’s worried about what others are going to say, and all these things. But if people can’t find you, when you’re posting on social and they can’t go to your website, and then once they get to your website, if they can figure out how to get there. It doesn’t explain what you do, and how you help people. It’s, it’s a dead end.

Erin Ollila
Yeah, and see, here’s my bone to pick with social media. And it’s not even social, it’s people’s trust in social media as a like a selling and marketing tool is you there’s like a 1% of online businesses or personal brands that can sell so well independently on social that people don’t feel like they need to do more research. Because I’ll tell you, like, you know, anyone that I’ve bought from that I may be found on social or I’ve, you know, found them and like got into their longer lead nurturing system is that we need to know more like it’s a big ask to call a web designer or a copywriter that could be charging 1000s of dollars, and just to DM them and say, Hey, how do we work together, like you have to feel so confident about them to take that big leap as a consumer. But yet, if people can just take that one click into a new area, what being a website as an example, to do their first round of research, and learn maybe like why you’re doing what you’re doing, what the importance is, like what your specific skill sets are, they’re, they’re already ready to be sold to, once they have that nurturing of the website, social doesn’t do that. So not that I feel like people shouldn’t be on social like, enjoy it, like it’s a great way to like get new people in your element and to be seen as like the human behind the business. But no matter what consumers need to do research before they spend money, and they need a website to get that research

Laura Kåmark
done. On I’ll even take that a step further and say that most people once they get to the website, they’re still not fully ready to buy from you, which is the importance right there of getting that email address so that then you can continue to nurture that relationship and just really build that know like and trust factor. And so that’s I mean that’s something I know I’ve been pushing a lot of my clients more and more the past couple years of like okay, we have them on the email list now let’s work on communicating with them because you can put them on a list all day long. But if you don’t email which I’m totally guilty of doing this I am not ended up emailing my list, I have some evergreen funnels that are I’m working on and there will be a day where it’ll be all set up and I can nurture all the wonderful people that come into my space and I can provide value to them.

Erin Ollila
Yeah, I’m sure this is I’m sure this is something that you experience as well but like a lot of the times when I get toward the end of a website copywriting project like my clients, I’ve now I’ve since changed this on how I approach clients and how I like educate them throughout the experience. But what I found was people are like, Okay, it’s done. I’m going to have so many clients coming to me now. So I had to kind of shift how I see to my clients, and like how I worked with them toward the end of a project to get them to understand that like, websites are not necessarily a set it and forget it type of system, they can be a longevity type of marketing where you don’t have, you shouldn’t have to touch it a ton. But there is so much more that goes into a website launch. To make it successful, right? Like, we want our sites to be a foundation for our business, we want it to have the basics and do some selling and nurturing for us based on things like user experience, the lead journey throughout your site, how you’re navigating them, and the information you’re sharing with them as it pertains to conversion. But there’s all more elements that influence the the marketing potential, like you mentioned, do you have a list? Are you using your list? Let’s jump back before the list. What is the lead magnet? Right? You know, one of my interior design clients, and I actually had this big conversation about this, because originally she was providing education, like, how do you like start to DIY before you even consider working working with an interior designer, or like what questions you might have before working with an interior designer. But what we found was she was really attracting di wires with that lead magnet, and it’s great to grow your list. But if you’re growing your list with people who aren’t like the right person for you, it’s not worth it. This person really did a lot of work with new builds and like the like a large scale interior design project. So for us, it was shifting to talk about like, when like, what is the process of a new build? And who you are working with? At what time? Which seems like, why would we do that when an interior designer wants their business? Well, it’s because clients often come to a new build with a contractor, or an engineer or a developer, they do not come with an interior designer. So we now have to both educate than an interior designer is part of that actual process, even in the beginning part of the blueprints, and how all these pieces work together. Because not many people have build multiple houses, like it’s a new process. So all of these tiny things that you may not think of do really rely on each other when it comes to success. Like, do you have the right lead magnet? Are you asking people to go on your list? Are you nurturing them? Are you showing up on social? Are you using SEO? Are you adjusting your SEO, and I am not saying that as a way to overwhelm or scare anyone, just something to the effect of like remember how and how important these things are. Don’t necessarily waste your time on the things where you may see immediate gratification, like social, for example, and spend more time on the things that feel less urgent. And it gives you longer term results, like SEO or like investing in like email marketing, because you will just build upon successes at that point.

Laura Kåmark
I love that so much. And I agree 100% with you on it. I think also even stepping back to because the thing that I find with clients is they’re like, like what you were saying is like, okay, the websites done. Now here come all the leads, and it’s the websites just a tool. Yeah, the marketing tool. And it’s a tool that can I mean, it can help your business, it helps you build authority, it helps because people again, like we were just talking about they want to go they want to see it and find out all the things about you, and how you can help them your services, everything there. But it also can help. They can help run the back end of your business, when you have it all connected to the things like where it’s connected to the email automations and all those pieces, but you also have to use it, you have to go out and tell people about it to drive traffic to it. Because if you’re not driving traffic to it, it’s not. It’s not if you build it, they will come. It’s no, if you build it, then you can go tell people it’s there.

Erin Ollila
Yeah, agreed. 100%. And, uh, you know, like, again, like I said, not this isn’t like a Debbie Downer conversation. I feel like the best way to help people be successful in their businesses and in their marketing is by being realistic and explaining these things like like, yes, in a website’s huge investment, right? Or even like a website upgrade could still be expensive, even if you’re like just changing things slightly. But even though there’s expenses involved, you want to be strategic, right? So like, let’s not like like fluff over this and just be like if you build it, they will come like look at this beautiful site. Let’s talk to our clients and talk to other online business owners about the fact that there are so many, quote unquote easy things you can do. Baby steps, you can take tiny actions that build upon each other to really bring people to your site. Like if you if you spent the money and the time on conversions and design and all of these things that go into websites. Let’s keep building Hang on that because it’s not hard. If you’re doing it strategically, if you’re just winging it and keeping your fingers crossed, of course, it’s going to seem like, oh, gosh, what do I have to do? These are so many things. But it’s actually rather easy. I think if you look at it from a strategic standpoint, and just keep nurturing the work you’ve already done and created.

Laura Kåmark
I agree. 100%. Like, so you’re just Yeah, absolutely.

Erin Ollila
This is the most fun conversation when I love people agreeing with me. I love to like, agree with them and echo them. But yeah, I think obviously, I think just being a designer and a copywriter sitting down, it’s so easy to be like, friends, this is so important. Please listen to us. We’re here for you.

Laura Kåmark
Exactly. So I would love to know what’s because as a web designer, and a tech person, I love talking, I love talking about conversions. I love talking about the copy, and just also the tech behind it all. Can you tell me a little bit about kind of the background on your website? And when you first were starting out how that all came to be, you know, as your website always looked like it does today?

Erin Ollila
No, no, my website has not always looked like it just today. So I mentioned earlier in the conversation that like I started this online world in the early days of personal blogging, which at the time, and I mean, obviously, this still exists now. It was like, you know, blogspot, I think was Google and WordPress was like wordpress.com, like your name.wordpress.com. So I had the what seemed like now a standard one page website, which is really just a blog, right? So you could just keep evolving the content you shared based on that one blog over and over again. So fortunately, having that experience understanding, like light HTML and design, I was able to kind of create what I like to call a two page website. So it was like that homepage with a blog. And that was my first website. And it basically it was it. I laugh now, but it was like, I can do anything and everything for you. Like, you know, like, Hi, my name is Aaron. And I have an MFA in writing and marketing skills and experience. So let us write your book, edit your book, like publish you on. Like, it was like a list of anything I could have ever done with anything I’ve ever learned or touched in my life. And again, one page website like, that was a little ridiculous. So yeah, jump on the Wayback Machine, and you’ll find some really fun content from me. But when I first kind of really sat down with my business, and those early like Freelancer days of transitioning away from the larger businesses, I recognize, like, here, I am talking to my peers about what needs to go on a website. And my website was so vague. And so speaking to everything that my clients weren’t getting, like, I could lecture them, but I wasn’t following through on the same thing myself. So it took a little while for me to kind of figure out how do I speak to both the big brands and the tiny businesses, and that was probably the biggest, the longest shift and transition in my business. Because over time, I’ve learned that the big brands don’t need me to market to them, they need to be convinced that I know what I do. So they’re fine with like, coming to my website and hearing me speak to smaller business owners, because they can see, you know, my skills in place. But for a while, it was like, Oh, are you a big business? Click here? Are you a small business? Click there? Or like, are you looking for copy? Are you looking for content and as the website copywriter for a very long time, I felt like I was not showing my best foot for my work, not because I wasn’t providing good copy. But because I wasn’t clear on how to make it easy for the end user. Right? Like so I sit with my clients. And I’ll say like, no, like, what’s the one main job of this page? Or like how can we take someone from your homepage and move them throughout the site in a way that’s strategic? But yeah, on my previous sides, I’m asking them to make a ton of decisions. Before they even know if they like me, right? So basically knew my website is not the same as it is right now. I also like to talk to people about the fact that I’m not sure any of us are always going to be 100% satisfied with what we have as our website. I love the design of my site right now. I love the copy of my site right now. But like I could explain a few things where I’m still struggling of knowing that it’s not as strategic as I’d like if I were working with a client. I’d be able to see their business so much easier. But it’s harder to Look at your own business and break things apart. So there are sections on my site where I wish I was a little more clear, or I wish I was, I know that I have some updating to do if that makes sense. And that’s okay. Like, I think the hardest thing of when you hire out website services is you make a financial investment that’s rather large. And when we make large financial investments, like buying a house, buying a car, like even buying a computer, right, my computer was pretty expensive, right? Like, we think to ourselves, okay, this is gonna last me a long time. And yes, absolutely, your website can do that. But if you look at it, as you are constantly evolving as a business owner, and your website should be evolving alongside of you. So when you do make that financial and investment, you really want to work with someone who understands strategy, customer experience, user experience, site navigation, like things like that. So So you have this awesome foundation that you can make minor tweaks to, right like you, you want to change the program, let’s say you have a membership, or you’re let’s say you’re just starting a membership, and you previously had services. Well, if you have a strong website Foundation, all you need to do is add a page for the membership and figure out how to reference the membership elsewhere, like maybe your homepage, things like that. You don’t need to start from scratch. But there, I don’t think that Oh, I see very often strategy being the first in a way that can help people grow their business. So I really like I love to talk about that, because I want people to understand, your website should change. But if you if you really get a great like Foundation, the changes shouldn’t have to be like bigger, huge financial change like investments, they shouldn’t have to be a massive over overtaking, because it’s already set up so well, that you know how to grow and make your website grow with you.

Laura Kåmark
I think that’s such a good point. I mean, I know for me, like, I don’t typically work with people who are just starting out, because when they’re just starting out, they’re not ready for me, they’re not ready for my services, because they’re just figuring everything out. And that’s okay, too. And so the clients I work with, they’re established, they know what their, what their services are, they know the results are getting for their clients or website just doesn’t reflect that anymore. And those are the people who are ready to invest in the copywriter, the website designer, and building out all the backend because they know the path they’re on, that doesn’t say that we haven’t gone back in and change program names and change, like change stuff around because it will it will continue. You make tweaks to it. Yeah, but we’re not doing a full on Pivot, versus when we’re first starting out. And we’re still like getting our feet wet in the online space and making lots of pivots, which also is okay to do. But just know that like when you are in, you’re like, This is the time I know what I’m doing. I love what I’m doing. I love the results I’m getting for my clients. That’s the time in my opinion, where you should go and do the investment, and get the copy done and the website and everything so that it can really reflect who you are and how you want to show up. And then like you said, you can just go and make the little tweaks and changes to it as things continue to evolve because a website, it’s it’s a living breathing part of your business.

Erin Ollila
It really is. And I think if I could say like the one and only pet peeve that I have with like the online, it’s not the one and only pet peeve. But like the one of the strongest things that I noticed were in some ways, I have so much empathy for the people saying it and I have said this myself a jillion times in my business, which is maybe why it’s turned into a pet peeve is I’m so frustrated when people say like, oh, yeah, I do this, but don’t look at my website, right? Or like, let’s just jump on. I see this in every business group I’m part of in memberships or masterminds I’m part of, and, yes, I am a website copywriter. But it’s not that it’s you’re calling attention to something that needs change, and you’re doing it over and over again. So what does that tell you? That tells you this is the change that needs to happen, right? Like, if you are not satisfied with your website so that you’re not sharing it with other people. Like you mentioned, if you’re doing really good client work, you’re at a great place in your business. That’s one key indicator. It’s great time to like really set those foundations. But at the same time, if you’re so embarrassed by your site, or not even embarrassed, let’s say you just know it’s so outdated. That’s also a really key indicator that you need to like, stop necessarily even working on things like lead attraction, like being in groups like well Learning in masterminds and just pull back and make sure you get the system set up for you. So that you can be confident and say like, absolutely check out this services page that like describes my whole process. Because the confidence you get, or at least what I’ve seen the confidence when you can do that and just be like, You bet I offer that service, here’s a link to it is so much more motivating for someone to purchase from you, than you saying, don’t take a peek at my website. But let’s just jump on a call. And I’ll explain it all to you. Because they want to have the assurity that you not only can say that you do what you do, but you’re showcasing it on your site.

Laura Kåmark
Oh, I love it. So good. So good. I would love to talk to you a little bit about some of the mindset that’s you’ve had going on just in growing your business? And what would you say were some of like, the fears and doubts you had when you were first starting out?

Erin Ollila
Yeah, it was, Can I can I maintain, right? And I would say I don’t even know if that’s ever gone away. And I’m okay with that for a couple reasons. Because it’s shifted over time, the way that the mindset has shifted, the thought might be the same. But there’s different reasons. And the reason why I think it’s okay to still worry about this. And FYI, I’ve been in business for six and a half years working towards seven right now. So I’m not a newbie. But yeah, I’m still worried about like, is it do I know what the heck I’m doing in this online business world. And I don’t sometimes. I would love an MBA, like right now I’m like, let’s go back to school and just get another degree at this point. Because I’m desperate for someone to tell me how to do this, how to run a business. After six and a half years, when I first started, it was kind of easy to just jump in headfirst and be like, yeah, you want me to write this content? Sure. Like, from that Freelancer mindset of like, I’m gonna follow the lead that you have. And that was a great learning curve regardless, because like I learned things about like, how to send invoices to my clients, like how to, like make a project management system, even, even if it wasn’t using it with them, but for myself to stay organized. So like, even though the business transitioned away from freelancing and more into true business ownership, there was a learning curve. But I didn’t know what I was doing. Like I literally did not know how to send an invoice. As silly as that sounds after working in HR for 13 years after working as a managing editor for someone else’s business and dealing with big companies. I thought to myself, like do I just open a Word doc that says, like, Hello, friend, please give me some money, like, I would like this much. And I’m not stupid. So I say that as a joke, but But truly, I didn’t even know how to send an invoice. So that has transitioned over time, based on the growth that I’ve been, you know, for a while it was like, I think a lot of us online business owners, because we see so much content thrown at us telling us how to do things. I think myself and everyone else I know included that they had to hire, whether it’s contractor or employee very early, like way before they were ready for it. So like in the early days after getting used to being like my own business owner, it was like, I need a VA like, I need an employee like I need to grow. So there was the question mark of like, Am I doing this? Like, even with that HR background, I was like, I don’t know what I’m doing right? Like, this is awful. And then I realized, no, I don’t necessarily need that right now. So let’s pull back. So I guess to like, kind of cut down those storytime here. The point is, I think that I’ve spent, you know, six and a half years of doing this, and I’ve facilitate between feeling so skilled and so confident and such an expert. And then the next day, it’s like, I have no clue what I’m doing. I also have no shame to admit that but like legit, I woke up this morning, and I’m like, How do I do this thing? I don’t know. Will someone please tell me because I just don’t know. But that’s okay. And I think that if we don’t beat ourselves up for not knowing the things we were never taught, which is like, Come on, guys. Like we can’t know things if we were never taught it right. Like if we don’t beat ourselves up for that. And we just look at it from an open mind of like, great, I get to learn this new thing. It’s just so much easier to grow because in middle six years, I’ve beat myself up quite a bit about not knowing how to do things. And like I said, I still fall into this trap all the time. But I think if we can adjust our mindsets slightly when we have the normal worries that are totally fine to have into thinking them more as like Like, how can I learn? Or how can I grow? It feels so much better to be in that unsure space.

Laura Kåmark
mindset shift. I was just having a conversation a couple days ago with another business online colleague. And we were talking about this exact same thing pretty much where. And it’s so fascinating too, because we see all these other people in the online space, like you were saying, like so much content is thrown at us, especially on social media. And it seems like everyone has it all together. And really, if like, when you talk to them, when we have the one on one conversation, we’re all still just trying to figure it out and constantly wondering, like, Am I doing the right thing? Like, is this is this my thing like, waiting? I know, I keep waiting for like that, that thing to happen. Yeah. And I mean, I started my business back, I was laid off unexpectedly from corporate when I was pregnant with my first daughter in 2015. And it just didn’t make sense, being four months pregnant, to go back and try to find another remote position. Because I mean, at that point, there wasn’t a lot of remote positions. And so it didn’t make sense. So my husband’s like, well, we’ll just make this you can make this website thing work. And so I was raising this new baby, and also trying to figure out how to build this online business. And so for me, it’s felt like it’s taken a really long time just to get where I am. And I have to remind myself often, to look back at how far I’ve come. Because also, there it has ebbs and flows. There’s been big dips in my business I’ve had some years are better than others. It’s not just this constant, like, Everything’s been great. And it’s all up, you know, numbers are soaring, like, that’s not realistic.

Erin Ollila
No. And I do I think that’s like the negative part of the online business world. Because when I talk to my clients, one thing I like them to understand, or like, at least maybe for a mindset shift that’s worked for me is I tell them like, imagine this online world did not exist, like what do you think the mom and pop business owners of your town who just opened up like their store on Main Street were doing to make business work? Right? Not that I think that there’s a pro and con to life, online world offline world, I don’t mean it like that. But I just mean, like, they didn’t have 8000 voices advising them, they had to make a decision, and then try it. And I think that’s what we’re not taught in the online business world. We’re taught like, learn, learn, learn and like, implement these things I’m telling you to do. But there’s, there’s so little talk about, like how to make decisions, and then how to follow that decision out. Because sometimes at least I found like, I’ve made a decision, and it proved incorrect. But that didn’t mean I needed to stop at that moment. Sometimes I had to stay with that incorrect decision to let it pan out to find out that, oh, that’s the key. That’s the key I was looking for, like at the end, like, I tried, it really didn’t work. I had so much faith in it. And then later, I’m like, what this is what I’m here for this is the lesson I really needed. So bringing it back to the mom and pop shops, like what did they do to grow business? PR, right. They contacted newspapers to get articles written about them. They paid for advertisement in local newspaper, they went door to door, they partnered with other businesses, they maybe even like gave free services away to get referrals. And those things and more can all be transitioned back to the online world. I have a course about testimonials. Because social proof is vital for your business, whether you use it on your website, your social, your email marketing, wherever we talk about people like clicking off social to go check out a website. So that’s like their own research. But like, I forgot the stat that I just saw this week, I think it was updated to lead from 89 to 92% of people want to see social proof before they make a decision. So it’s not only their own research, but they want to see what other people have to say, I did it myself this weekend. I went to New Hampshire for a weekend and I we have our favorite restaurants that we like to eat in the area we go. But we had a couple of extra days there than normal. So we had to pick new places. And boy, did I read those online reviews for quite some time. So I think that like when we look at this again, look at the mom and pop and think well, how can I translate this into my business? You don’t have to do everything at once, folks. But like, don’t just follow the advice that everyone is doing the thing that’s supposed to be like the must do for all businesses, because there’s no such thing. Maybe it is that you have an online business and yes, you work with people from all over the world. But maybe you do PR maybe you go to your local power newspaper, and have them run an article for you. Let’s just use you as an example. As a website designer. Of course you work with people from all over you’re not bound to just work with people in your town. Baja. Laura, are there people in your town that run businesses? Absolutely. A whole they need websites? They sure do. Right? So there’s so many different options for us as online business owners to step out of the box that we’re in, and try something. So if we look back at the mom and pops and how they didn’t have, like, you know, the online marketers of the world spewing like truisms at them, they made decisions, they follow through with those decisions, they learn from them, and they kept doing decisions and ways to grow their business that they were just all trial and error. So if we can take that into our own businesses, and try new things, we’re going to see rapid growth in some areas, and you know, slower burnouts and others and but it’ll teach us so much about how to make other decisions in the future. Oh,

Laura Kåmark
my gosh, that’s so good. And I mean, I’m guilty of that. So much, like decisions can be so hard. Yeah.

Erin Ollila
Especially when you’re a parent, right, like so you like you mentioned about, like, the timeline, that was the same timeline for me really, starting my own business. I had a baby at home, like, I had, like I had this sounds so silly, but I used to tell my friends like, how do you know how much tylenol to give your kid like, obviously, you can look for weight, right? But like, What I meant was like, I’m, there’s so many decisions in my life, like, how do I know if this is teething? Or if she’s just cranky? Like, I need a manual. So like, if you look at that lens of what you’re experiencing as like a new parent, and the same time you’re running a business, there are a million decisions that we’re making that are all high priority in some ways. Which is why I think really, sometimes you just need to make a quick decision and go with it. And if it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. Let’s stop investing so much of our like, energy and emotions into the decisions and just make the decision. I think that’s probably my been my biggest downfall in business truly is fear slash perfectionism not allowing me to decide or take action, though. Those are four different things, right? Fear is one thing. Perfectionism is another deciding and action are both separate. But like if you put them all together, that has been every time I’ve failed, it’s one of those things. Every time I haven’t succeeded in the way that I’d hope it’s one of those things, they’re all working together. So if you want to learn anything, based on my failures, it’s that sometimes honestly, making the quick decision taking the quick action will propel you a lot faster than trying to just figure things out and trying to weigh every pro and con and trying so hard to make sure things are perfect. Or live up to your standards. Because, you know, as a copywriter, I think you know, my own website, I’m like, oh, gosh, well, that’s not exactly how I want to say this. I know I can do it better. My clients don’t know that the people reading my website don’t know that. I think I can do it better. They’re looking at it. And they’re like, Oh, this is helpful information. Like that’s just how the world works, right? Like when it comes to design and you looking at your own website, I’m sure there are things you look at. And you’re like, Hmm, I think I need a little bit more spacing here. Like, you know, this is a little crowded, this image doesn’t work. Exactly. Your clients are not thinking that they’re looking at your website and being like, Oh, how can I work with her? What’s her process like, right? So that’s just an example of perfectionism. And I think like, for me, I never thought I was a perfectionist until I started my business ever, I would have never described myself that way. But when I say perfection and fear mix together, I see this play out in my businesses where it’s like, I know that I have like a high quality, like I always like to really provide a good client experience a great job of conversion copy. So I hold myself to a standard that is honestly unrealistic, because my clients still get the great experience, they still get the great copy. Like I’m not trying to win like a Pulitzer for this, right? Like, I’m not writing like a presidential speech here. Like I’m just trying to make my clients their voice and tone come out and their copy their message come out the right audience and appeal to these things. No, I’m not changing the world. But I am changing the client’s world. So it’s just this thing of like, pushing past this, like, expectations that we have of ourselves and just doing the thing and every time I have that’s where I’ve seen the success or that’s where I’ve gained the confidence or gotten the motivation in my business.

Laura Kåmark
I yeah, I can relate to that so much because that’s the same with me when I get Very often stuck in inaction because I get I overcomplicated, I overthink it. And I get my head about it. And if I can just push through that and just move forward, I see results. Yeah. Oh, I love that. I could talk to you all day. This is so fun. I’m glad you came on the show, I have one final question that I would love to ask you that I asked everyone who comes on the show. And that is what is one piece of advice you would give to someone when they’re first starting out that would help them be bolder, be louder and make waves in business,

Erin Ollila
I would say to claim your space. And what I mean by that is, I don’t mean like a social media account. I don’t necessarily mean a website, it’s knowing what you stand for. And then standing for that thing. I think part of this like story we’re told in the online business slash marketing world is that like, we need a personal brand and needs to do this. And it needs to do that. And we need to attract, attract attract. Now, even though I work in SEO, and that’s like a passion of mine, attracting is not the only thing you need to do, you need to repel, because you’re going to spend a heck of a lot of time on Discovery calls, a heck of a lot of time trying to get rid of on ideal clients, or even more time trying to like work with a client that is not suited for you. If you’re not repelling people, so if we own our space, and like determine like, these are my values, and I’m gonna bring these values into my business, or this is like my level of boldness, or guess well, I’m not bold, I’m like, super like cologix, professional tone, whatever decision it is that you make and how you want to show up. Just like step into it. Don’t be afraid that how you show up, you’re going to put people off because that’s what I think you want to do. I think you want to put people off so you can attract the right people to your business.

Laura Kåmark
Oh, I love that so much. Erin, where can everyone find you online? Where can they come find out more about you hang out with you?

Erin Ollila
Yeah, so I mean, there’s lots of ways right? Find me on social, I’m there. It’s my name. But the main two ways that I’d love for people to connect with me is they can come to my website, which is simply Erin. Oh, lulu.com. I know my last name is a mouthful. But here’s a trick that I love to talk to people about. When it comes to SEO. Google knows me like me and Google, we’re good friends. So you can spell my name incorrectly. And Google is still going to direct you to my website. So a lot of people like when we think about SEO, there’s no urgency there. But like I like to kind of like share this as both a joke and as as an example. It’s like, as a podcast guest you only have my audio like you don’t have a visual with my obviously, yes, you have your show note descriptions. But like my name is not up on a screen for you to see. So you can spell it any way you would like and find your way over to my website. But while you’re here in a podcast player, don’t even leave, just come and head on over to my podcast when you’re done listening to Laura’s show. It is called Talk copy to me. And it’s a weekly show. And we talk about all things marketing and messaging. So email sequences, website, pages, SEO, you name it. Like Laura show, I really like to sit down and just have a conversation with people and keep it fun and interesting and really learn about what makes other businesses tick. So we can all take that into our own businesses as well.

Laura Kåmark
I love that so much. I will link all of that up in the shownotes thank you so much for coming on today.

Erin Ollila
Thank you so much for having me.

Laura Kåmark
Thanks so much for listening to this week’s episode. Be sure to check out the show notes at Laurakamark.com/podcast. And if you’re ready to turn your website into a marketing machine, get more sales, save time and simplify the back into your business. Grab my free resource power integrations for your website. Head on over to Laurakamark.com/power. Thanks so much for listening. See you next week. Bye now.