Laura Kåmark
Hey everyone. Welcome to the Be Bold Make Waves Podcast, a show bringing you inspiring stories of women who are growing and scaling their business. I’m your host, Laura Kåmark, a website and tech integration specialist who works with online business owners who love their work but NOT their website. Join me as we have incredible conversations about business mindset, productivity, and of course, the website and tech behind the business. Let’s go ahead and dive in to this week’s episode. Hello, and welcome to today’s show. I’m so excited for you all to be here today. And for those of you who don’t already know me, my name is Laura Kåmark. I’m a website and tech integration specialist who works with women who love their work, but not their website. My guest today, Dorothy Villeneuve is a debt is dedicated to helping women create profitable online businesses that allow them to quit their day job, pursue their passions and live a fulfilling life where they can strive as an entrepreneur and still have a life. She’s an international sales and marketing consultant for online women entrepreneurs are unmatched service and done with you consulting helps online coaches and experts zero in on their zone of brilliance, simplify and increase their sales and finally get all their fancy funnels and copywriting done, even if they dread tech and feel scattered. Dorothy, thank you so much for being here today. Can you tell our listeners just a little bit more about you and how you help people?

Dorothy Villeneuve
Sure. It’s a joy to be here. Thank you, Laura, I know, we have a lot of fun together. So this should be really fun. So how who I am and how I help people. I started out thinking I was a health coach, I tried really, really hard to be a health coach, I was a certified personal trainer, I have some nutrition certifications. And yeah, I didn’t want to get out of bed and do that for people. It was kind of like trying to control people’s religion. And I just didn’t want to do that anymore. So I had a lovely business coach at the time. And she called me out and said you should probably help people with sales. Because I know in the background of this program we’re all in, people are contacting you and having you help them with their sales. And you’re really, really good at it. Why aren’t you doing it? And I was like, well, because I’m running away from corporate, and I hated it. She laughed at me and said, Yeah, but now you get to choose who you work with. Now you get to choose the people that you can help grow their businesses and their sales and do it in Integrity and Authenticity. So that’s what I do now. I started out coaching. And then I realized very quickly that when I coach people, they would come back week after week, and a lot of times they were really busy and they weren’t getting things done. So I pivoted to what I call coach salting, which is I use the, you know, questioning process of coaching that we’re all familiar with, it’s so helpful, that helps you ideate and helps it become your idea. And then I combine it with my consulting skills, which is, hey, here’s what you’re like, here’s a good software for you. Or here’s what we can do with this particular thing. Instead of them being left with a coaching questions surrounding the things that we know what are good answers to. So that’s how I help in kind of a big long nutshell. And that’s kind of why I’m where I’m at, in my business now and what I do, oh, I

Laura Kåmark
love that so much. I think I mean, sales is hard. And especially for someone who like me, I mean, the sales that I’ve done prior to having my own business was all for another company, it was you know, when I was living in the Caribbean and working at the spice shop, or the jewelry store, or the art gallery, and like doing sales for them, and that felt really easy. But selling for myself is seems so much harder. Do you find a lot of women that you work with have that same experience?

Dorothy Villeneuve
Yes, because you believe you’re selling yourself, and you’re not selling yourself, you’re selling a service, a transformation and experience things like that. So it’s entirely common, people get all up in their head, they worry about achieving results for their clients, which kind of is phenomenal. Because if you are able to achieve results for your client without your client participating, then you you probably have a much more high paying job than I do. So you can worry less about that. Because it’s I think it’s co creation and collaboration for 99.9% of people who are in the service or product industry. They’re working with the particular client, and they’re delivering the result based on that collaboration and that co creation, it’s not, you’re not selling yourself, if you were selling yourself really honestly it would be worth you know, you’d be giving away it would be sci fi you’d be giving away yourself.

Laura Kåmark
I think that’s such an important point too, because, like, I build websites, and there are people who think oh, I build a website and then all these clients are just gonna come to me, but really the website is just a tool, and then the client still needs to go out there. to market their services they have to tell people about they have to send traffic to that website, it’s not if you build it, they will come. If you build it, you will have a tool to send them to to look at and find out more about you and book a call with you.

Dorothy Villeneuve
And pour into to write when we think about things like podcasts, blogs, the content and copywriting that goes into it, right, that all of that can’t be you continuously for the rest of your existence, you were providing a container for them to build from. And that container is incredibly necessary. Right? We know nowadays, if you don’t have a website, or if you don’t have a presence online, is very, very, very curious and suspicious. And people are like, well, where’s the evidence, like you say, you’re great, or you’ve got a few things that say, you’re great, maybe on your socials and things like that, but where to actually land to kind of poke around and explore and discover more about you. And that that onus falls 100% on your clients, right? Not on not on you. You’re just facilitating that happening. But they can also choose a range of people. And I always say that to people who kind of want to do things inexpensive, we won’t use the C word. Because we don’t that’s that’s not the right word. So when people are looking to do things inexpensive, and I always call it circling the drain, because it’s something we learned in sales when you’re in corporate, right, you don’t you don’t go to the lowest price. That’s that’s a bad idea. They end up fighting each other at the bottom of the drain. Whereas when someone like yourself shows up on the scene, like they have a choice, they have a range, they can go to Fiverr. Or they can work with someone who can deliver an exceptional product at a high value and get results that they desire and be really, like you say happy with their website pleased ecstatic, proud to display it, that sort of thing. Or they can pay less and get less. And that’s a choice. So they get to make that decision. A lot of sales is the honest is on the onus is on the decision maker, not so much on us as the delivery person who says hey, great, it sounds like I have a wonderful solution for you. Here’s the price point. It’s not You’re not their financier, you’re not their banker. You’re just saying a number. It’s like I always say it’s like asking someone if they want a piece of gum. That’s people love that one. Because I’m like, if I offer you a piece of gum, you might say no, and I won’t go and cry on my pillow. And it won’t be about me. It’ll just be like you don’t feel like having some minty freshness in your mouth right now. And that’s cool. You get to make that choice. You’re laughing I love it.

Laura Kåmark
I love that analogy so much. And that’s great. That’s amazing. I actually haven’t heard it explained in that way. I’ve heard the Advil. One Well, yes, you know, someone has a

Dorothy Villeneuve
headache. I think it mean, everybody has headaches, that’s a great idea. Let’s let’s pivot on people’s pain points, right. But a lot of times, I don’t need to talk to you about your pain points, and how troublesome and horrid things are for you. Because that’s not the situation you’re in. So it’s kind of, I think it’s it’s still wise in your copywriting and things like that, to think about the struggle or the pain or the what’s keeping people up at night, I’m not gonna say I don’t leverage those things in my own copy. However, in conversations with people, a lot of times, that’s not the like, thing that we need to stick our elbow into, in order to create a sale.

Laura Kåmark
Not that instead, let’s focus more on the minty freshness that they would have faster. I love that. And results,

Dorothy Villeneuve
selling based on results is often a lot more effective than based on pain. And if somebody can

Laura Kåmark
fight me on that, well, that will not be me because I agree with you. 100%. What so when someone comes to you, and they’re really struggling with like, not making it about them when they’re selling? What are some tips or advice you have to like, do like maybe some mindset shifting or reframing?

Dorothy Villeneuve
Oh, sure. Usually, I remember I had a client meet Jay, who had this it was really big for her because she was spiritual, energetic kind of coach. That was her stuff. And so it really felt like if people came into her experiences with her, and they did these sort of like astral travel events, if she wasn’t able to like connect properly or do these sorts of cleanses and clearings and things like that. Right? That’s that’s big. That’s transformative. That’s energetics. That’s that’s saying to someone. So she felt like sometimes when she was telling people about what would happen, that if she sold them a particular thing for a particular price that she wouldn’t be able to communicate the value of it. And so what we did was we basically wrote it all out on a piece of paper, I get people to do that. Then I get them to have their brag book, their testimonials, they’re, you know, screenshots of everything. You should have a folder on your computer, whatever. You’re always going to run into a bad apple that makes you feel like a little potato when you’re actually pretty Cool, right? So have people do that write everything out about what they’re actually delivering, then have a brag book of people who’ve gotten results and look at the words they’re saying, because what happens, especially with the things that she was doing was she was like really engaging energetics and doing some stuff that was pretty high level for people. And on a regular basis, they would always be saying to her, you’ve caused this transformation, you’ve created this huge aha, you’ve shifted my entire perspective on life, you’ve brought joy back to me, those sorts of things. And I was like, great, I’d love you to write down a list of all those things. And then please quantify them with $1. Tell me how much transforming my life shifting everything for me giving me these massive aha was, what’s that worth? What is bringing joy back to me worth. And that is usually a great way to help people realize that the value is objective. And you’re in charge of determining what’s worthy of your time. And that helps you frame it differently. And most people talk to me and end up increasing their prices, because I get frustrated that they’re not being paid well enough for their time, for their efforts. And for the what I bring 25 years of experience to things. You work with tons of people who do sales and marketing consulting, you have a similar experience, right? Like, how much is that worth? How much is your lived experience worth? How much is your earned experience, your education, the time the years you’ve spent in the trenches, all the work that you’ve done, the 1000s of hours you’ve spent talking to people that’s worth money. So it’s not about commoditizing? What you do, it’s about realizing that you’re bringing a lot more to the table than you probably realize.

Laura Kåmark
Yes, 100%, all of the things you just said, I mean, I was just talking to someone about this yesterday, where as a techie person, sometimes to do a task for a client, I can get it done in five minutes. But I have a minimum of a 30 minute for anything, any of those sorts of tests. And so this friend I was talking to who’s also a web developer, web designer. And she was like, I went and did this thing for a client only took me six minutes. And I’m like, but that’s okay. You still Bill her for the 30 minute minimum, because it took you six months because you knew where to go, how to do it. It wasn’t stressful for you. For her, it was probably stressful even thinking about having to log into her website. It was stressful to even think about like, oh, how much time is this going to take for me to try to figure out remember, I know maybe was showed how to do this. But like, it’s just a lot of added can be even anxiety that people will get about making this little updates to their website, I had a client reach out to me just a couple of weeks ago and got an email from her. And she’s like, I went in I tried to make a change. I deleted the whole page. What was sorry, hopefully you can bring it back. Hopefully there’s a backup

Dorothy Villeneuve
for that backbone, you know,

Laura Kåmark
and she’s on my maintenance plans. I’m like, Yeah, no worries, there’s a backup, I’ll get it restored. Not a big deal. But you know, and for her, luckily. And I don’t know how much stress that might have caused her to even like get to that point. And but it didn’t sound stressful in that email, which I should have asked her like, I hope you were okay. But like, I know, for her at least like the peace of mind of knowing that paying me every month to maintain her site and keep backups helped ease whatever she did not sound freaked out in that email at all. There was not a freaked out toad.

Dorothy Villeneuve
No, and she there would have been like, you can almost guarantee that there would have been if not for that. And that’s, that is the it brings to mind that somebody, oh, there’s like a story about fixing a train or something. They’re having a problem and the guy goes and he like hits the hammer once and then gives them a bill for like $10,000. I’m sure the price has changed over the years with inflation. But basically, it’s like it’s $1 to for the hammer hitting of the hammer. But the rest of the amount is for knowing exactly where to hit it to make it go. And I think that that’s a big part of what we don’t realize we bring to the table we often undervalue ourselves because we don’t know what we have amassed as value in knowledge and an ease you deal with tech. Like I deal with tech like a lot of people. I started my business Patchwork, quilting everything together trying to save a buck. And now I’m a big proponent of like all in one softwares that there wasn’t really great ones when I first started and now they’ve gotten a lot better. And people will look at me and say oh, like kartra minimum $100 a month and I’ll be like, great. So we’re looking to run in the next six months a business that doesn’t make $1,200 Is that what you’re trying to tell me? And they’re like aghast and I’m like, why? We talked about the boldness of my abilities. But honestly, if we’re running a business, and we’re not planning on making $1,200 in one year’s time, then you don’t need to talk to me. We don’t need to be investing, do something different. Like these, these types of things that make life simple and put everything together, are very much worthy and have value and will save you tons of headache. And the average bear is not into taping their tech together. And the average bear is not into going in the backend of your WordPress site and trying to figure stuff out because it is, it is daunting. There’s a lot that I wasted. That’s a story for another day. But I wasted a lot of time when I first started out hiding from doing my business by building my own website. And I wish I had kept a log of how long I spent on that website. And the fact that it probably lasted me like six months max. And quickly, I realized it was horrible. I didn’t like it. And I was busy enough that I didn’t want to redesign it myself. So I got it redesigned. But I had the experience and the knowledge, which I always think is important. People don’t people haven’t been waitresses, people haven’t done housekeeping. I’ve done all these fun jobs I’ve had, I’ve done a lot of jobs. And when you have the knowledge of how much work it takes to be a waitress how much work it takes to be a housekeeper how much take work it takes to be in the backend of a website building things. Suddenly, the value of what you do in five minutes is certainly worth a 30 minute retainer value. Like it’s nuts, right? Yeah.

Laura Kåmark
100% Oh, my gosh. So when is a good time for people to work with you? Where are people usually in their business where they’re like, Dorothy, I need you I need help. Like,

Dorothy Villeneuve
usually, they’re in the range of six to 10 figures, or six to 10 feet, wow, that’d be nice. Those are nice people, I could work with them. 6000 to $10,000, a month is usually good. My, the six figure entrepreneurs get the most value out of me because they need to fix their systems, they need to streamline stuff, they they’re busy enough with their client load that they realize they need to systematize and streamline and automate. And then they also just need to polish things up, they need to polish their copy, they need to make sure they’re emailing regularly. They need to spend their time getting featured on podcasts and things like that, right and going and writing the articles and getting published. And actually working with clients because that’s what they’re doing for a living, rather than doing all of the other things that kind of get their systems running, and things like that. And a lot of times, it’s funny, because the last three or four people that I’ve worked with that have been six figure entrepreneurs have surprised the crap out of me by going in and looking at their back end, they does. And this I’m sure this will happen to you as well with websites. They don’t have a naming convention for their email. So they’re just and they’re not saving templates, they’re not saving themselves time in particular ways. They don’t have dedicated Hey, today, I do these three things. And then Tuesday, I do these three things. And then Wednesday, they don’t have a system or a plan. They don’t have standard operating procedures to hand off to a VA so they can stop doing everything for their business. They still think they can wear 50 hats and run a six figure business and scale it to seven. And it’s not possible. It’s it’s time to get help.

Laura Kåmark
The call Dorothy?

Dorothy Villeneuve
Yeah. Clarify your messaging, start attracting more leads, simplify, only sell stuff you really enjoy that sort of stuff. That’s what I do really well.

Laura Kåmark
Okay, I want to talk a little bit about copy in messaging. Okay. So I know that’s a big piece of like making sure that your sales messaging on your website is just like someone point can you talk about like, how do you have someone know, how do you know if your messaging is on point?

Dorothy Villeneuve
People book calls with you, they take the call to action? And actually do you got your Google Analytics set up and you see how many people are coming and then you start looking at how many people you’re converting. That’s how you know what’s working. You get people in your inbox who message you and say, Oh, I was on your website, and I read this and it’s just it’s stood out to me, this is me. I’ve lately and you will laugh at this had a lot of men reading my website and saying, I just I read it and I didn’t know and I hope I can work with you. I hope you’ll work with me because I know you only work with women. Which makes me laugh because I’m like I think some of my messaging needs to change. So how

Laura Kåmark
did respond to that. I’ve gotten some of that recently, too, because it’s in my, my email signature as well that you know, working with women who love their work, but not their website. They’re like, do you work with men? And I’m like, Well, my messaging is for women in all my marketing, because that’s what we do here. So we talked to one specific person I said, I still work with men, but

Dorothy Villeneuve
typically, my I do a similar thing I’ll either like I was gonna say medium chill, but I don’t medium chill people who talk to me in my business. I work well with people who have a good balance of my husband always makes fun of me for talking about this of feminine and masculine energy. So I’m big about capitalizing on the feminine sales advantage, because I think as women we have this huge and it’s it’s research, there’s Forbes did a podcast episode about it. There’s all kinds of information that says that women are actually better at sales. It’s the nurturing caretaking, not slimy used car salesman personality types that we generally come with, right. And we are the people who feel bad about trying to sell people things. Whereas a lot of times masculine energy is a lot about the clothes, the invoicing, the bookkeeping, that sort of thing is what brings the masculine energy. So the right men are lovely to work with, for me, but I basically do a vibe check with them before I say yes or no. And if the vibe check flies, then and usually they’re men, this is funny, probably sis gendered. A lot of times I don’t know that I’ve worked with anybody else. But they’re usually men who say, My wife really liked you. And my wife thinks you’re the perfect person for us. Right? And it’s so then already, I’m like, okay, so you work really well with your wife, you’re in a good teammate relationship, right? Where you’re in a partnership, and you’re helping each other grow. That’s a good sign to me that you’re willing to be coached that you’re willing to listen, that you’re willing to take on different ideologies and concepts and try things that are different. So that to me is a good fit client. I’m always just looking to work with great clients, really perfect people. For me, I don’t want to work with anybody who’s like, maybe might be okay, but in three months, I want to pull my hair out and I don’t want to get on a call with it. So those can be men, women, usually not children. Not often dogs or giraffes.

Laura Kåmark
Get a lot of giraffes.

Dorothy Villeneuve
Definitely would work with one like I’m not gonna lie. I would be interested of that. Maybe I can talk to some zoos do their marketing.

Laura Kåmark
Dorothy, You crack me up. I was so excited about this call. I knew how much fun we were going to have. I would love to talk a little bit about when you made the leap into entrepreneurship. What do you wish you had known before you made that leap?

Dorothy Villeneuve
Oh, do you want me to be egotistical right now? Because I can because I will have do. I wish I knew what I brought to the table. I wish I I don’t regret the experience I went through because I think it really helps me connect with people who are doing a similar thing who were having the doubts or having the confidence issues around sales, right? A lot of people have really great products really great offers really great, whatever. And then they just get to sales and they sound like they’re gurgling underwater lead over, would you like to buy this from me kind of thing, they get freaked out. I did not realize that I had a unique genius that I had a brilliant zone. And then I was bringing that to the table from day one. And then I could leverage that. And that was my skill set. And that it could be easy. That what I could do could be fun. I thought based on the conditioning of working since I was like 13 that it’s work you have to work it has to be hard work has to be long hours, it has to be overwhelming and stressful and that sort of thing. Like Gosh, that’s what I wish I had known. I wish I had known that from the very beginning I should have taken it lightly, had fun laughed about it. Realize that my clients were human and that they were laughing and having fun, that sort of thing.

Laura Kåmark
I like the sales process is so hard for me. So I am one of those people that are not gifted in the sales department which is shocking because my father is a salesman. But I again like I never learned how to sell for myself when starting my business. So I definitely don’t feel incredibly competent on sales calls. So when you have clients that come to you are like I don’t feel confident on sales calls. What’s Some tips or advice you get them?

Dorothy Villeneuve
Well, let’s use you. Why don’t you feel confident on sales calls? Do you? Are you comfortable with that answer or not? Yeah,

Laura Kåmark
let’s do it over the situation. Why am I not confident? Um, I’ve probably because I have a lot of different services that I offer. And I’m always trying to find like, what’s going to be the best thing? And then I’m also trying, oh, I can week? I don’t know short answer to this. Like, one of the things I know I struggle with is I cannot do a short sales call. Like, I just, it takes me too long to like, dig deep with with potential clients and like, find out really what’s going on, get a big picture. And then it’s just the way my brain works. It takes time to process things. I’m not like on the spot. You know, my husband’s really good at the quick comebacks. And for me, it like comes three hours later, I’m like, Oh, I have a good comeback for that thing that was said three hours ago. That’s just like, I I’m a processor, I have to sit and like process,

Dorothy Villeneuve
the information anchor, which is rare. Now we’re looking for deep thinkers. Now society needs deep thinkers, because we’re missing them. Right? We’ve we’ve lost that capacity. Okay. So wonderful. What I hear you saying is that you’re not good at sales calls, because you need to prepare the best answer for them, like give them the best option for them. So instead, there’s two ways you can look at it. One proposals after the call, in a couple hours, just having a preliminary call that you do not put a heavy timeline on, I always tell people at the beginning of your sales conversation, you should say to someone, why did you book the call with me, even though you get them to fill that out in your form? Ask them again, because life changes, and you don’t know if that’s their primary problem still. So you don’t want to be talking to them about a problem. That isn’t the problem. That’s just the worst way to not make a sale, right? Secondary to that. If they don’t have a limit on their time, then tell them hey, you know, I’m I like to get to know you really well. I like to spend a lot of time on a sales conversation with people, your business become something that’s really important to me. So if you don’t have a time limit on this, I will try to keep it tight to 30 minutes, that usually gives me enough time to really hear from you what you’re looking to accomplish with your website. But if we go a bit over, Are you cool with that we vibe and things are going well. And I’m getting deeper, and I’m getting some good insights is that cool? People will love you for that. You had a very long conversation with me. Did I get for clamped or upset or overwhelmed or unhappy? No, it was fun. We had we it was a good vibe check. I’ve heard you a lot to a lot of people, because I think you’ve got the good stuff. Right? So that’s, that’s part of it is getting comfortable in who you are. I very often have long sales conversations to when I first get to meet people. But I set the qualifier of, hey, this is a 30 minute call, what’s your time constraint. And if people have a 30 minute constraint, then I tighten myself up and say, Hey, we might need to have a secondary sales call. There are no flippin rules, this is your business. You got to do it your way. And the more you show up authentic and the more you open up to that and be vulnerable to people and say, Hey, I’m like a deep thinker. And it takes me some time sometimes, like I want to give you the best option for your website. And I may have to think this through and I know some people tell you like you gotta close on the sales call, but I’m not that person. That’s okay. I often give people permission to not close on the sales conversation. Because sure, stats say you will lose a lot of your clients by not closing on the sales call. But I run like a 80 90% close rate on my sales conversations. Because I avoid talking to the people that shouldn’t be talking to. I only talk to really high quality good vetted clients that want to talk to me. And typically they convert. And guess what we have long sales conversations and there’s no flippin problem, people don’t have run with it. So there, we’ve dealt with those. How’s that feel for you?

Laura Kåmark
That feels amazing. So then the next thing is I know I get like, awkward around the money talk and the pricing and I’m like, oh, and I try to stay out of their wallet. But it’s still like it comes through and like all my stuff starts to come up, which again, you can use just don’t say the price on the call or on the flipside, do I at least need to be giving a range on the call?

Dorothy Villeneuve
Do you practice saying your prices in front of a mirror? No. Okay. Yeah, I would do that I would deliver your price in front of the mirror. The secondary part of it is and even when whenever you go to increase your prices, which you probably should, everybody should increase their prices right now. Whenever you go to increase your prices, make sure you deliver it in front of the mirror a bunch of times and you see yourself and you see how you’re you’re visually responding to the way that you’re delivering the price. Because the minute you have doubts about your value, you energetically they have doubts, right? And you don’t have to say anything. It’s completely subconscious. It just creates this tension in the virtual air between the two of us that I started to think you don’t believe it? Now, I’m not believing it. And no one’s saying anything, because no one’s rude, typically, right? A lot of times, people are dealing with their fear. So what’s the worst thing that can happen? So people say, Wow, that’s a lot of money to me a lot? Yes. Here’s how it breaks down. Let’s unpack that. Why is that a lot of money for you? What do you expect to earn while working with me? Versus what are you earning on your own? Right, so where are we going to be in six months? You? Absolutely yes, it’s a lot of money, you don’t have to work with me. Nobody’s got your hand tied to the, you know, keyboard to make you punch in a credit card number to pay me no one. It’s a choice. And it’s empowering them to make the choice to decide what’s worthy for them. And I just so happen to know what you value some of your services at. So I just so happen to know that if those if the conversations you’re having are difficult for them to realize the value of the money they’re going to spend with you, then you are talking to the wrong people, because they’re nuts.

Laura Kåmark
So then I want to go and ask you, because you’re mentioning that you’re have you’re very good at qualifying pre qualifying your people. And how are you doing that? I’m going to assume it’s with great questions on your intake form. But that’s just my assumption.

Dorothy Villeneuve
Yes, there’s good questions on the intake form that allow me to determine whether or not they’d be a good fit for certain offers. So number one, so you financially need to know like, where you can take them from to where they can go to, you definitely need to do your research before you get into a conversation with someone. So I’m going to go look at your social media followings your website, your things like that, when you fill out my form, I asked you to give me your deets, like I want to know. And then I go do a 30 minute recon, where I look things up and check things out. Such that I’ve been on so many sales conversations with people who’ve done no recon on me. And then subsequently, they don’t make the sale. If you’ve done recon properly on your ideal client, and you know what metrics to look for, then you know how they’re performing. And when you I ask about your finances, I want to know how much you’re making. And if you’re not making enough to speak to a higher end offer, I’m either going to move you towards a self study or move you towards a lower ticket group saying that sort of thing. Or I’m just going to be dead honest and say, Hey, here’s the things you could do to get yourself to the point where you could work with me. And I’ve also had people be like, like me, I did this. I sold my house. I had money to burn. The coach that I talked to for my very first coaching engagement was way outside my budget. Like I didn’t even know people charge that amount of money. It just, I practically fell off. It was a phone call. Thank God, I practically fell off my chair. I was like pardon? Like how much and then that was the high pressure sale of like, you’ve got to close now. And if you don’t give us a deposit, or you know, how are you going to get the money together? Are you going to ask friends and family? Are you gonna go to your bank like was evil and don’t do that to people that have done it wrong, right. But I had just sold my house and I had money. And I believed that this could achieve the results that I wanted. If I took this program, therefore, I found the money. So also not being your clients banker. You don’t know I had a client who paid me in full right up front for a five figure engagement, and her grandmother paid for it. I was just like, does your grandmother need any grandchildren? She busy? That’s amazing. I don’t think anyone in my life has ever had that much faith in me beyond me. So I was really impressed. But again, if I have I did my recon, I have my pre qualification questions. The way I do my sales call flow, you know a little bit about that. Also helps, right? Then it’s it’s stepping away from that that particular thing. It’s allowing the big, hairy, scary price point to be a big, hairy, scary price point and then helping them unpack that. And maybe that comes from coaching. Right? Because I often have to coach people through their own money stories or their own problems making the sale. But 99.9% of it can be pitch resales. So getting to the point in the sales conversation where and I think you could do this really well. You don’t need to pitch them. They say oh my gosh, okay, Laura. I know enough. I’ve heard enough. I’ve seen enough. Tell me what it’s like to work with you. How much when do we get started? Send me an invoice. Those sorts of people. I get that a lot. Now, where I don’t I’m just I’m like a lazy salesperson. Now. I don’t even to pitch. And that ideally is where a lot of my clients love to get to. It is a really good spot. Because if you don’t like trying to turn the conversation into, okay, let’s talk about what it’s like to work with me. Would you like to hear more about that? If you don’t like saying that question. Usually I can help. I don’t think I haven’t helped anybody not get there.

Laura Kåmark
Put it that way. Oh, I love that. And that is all so helpful. Oh, I can’t move. Good stuff. Dorothy. So good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We are getting close to our time that just flew by. I could sit here and talk to you all day about all of this. It’s just amazing. And I love it so much. I have one question that I asked everyone who comes on the show. That is what is one piece of advice you would give to someone when they’re first starting out in their business that would help them be bolder, be louder and make waves. Whoo.

Dorothy Villeneuve
I would like everyone who just starts out in business to do something and this will be like timely and relevant and topical. Elise Myers was talking about working with a therapist at least Myers Allah tick tock fame and Instagram fame. She’s if you don’t know her, you should just go look her up. She talks about tacos in dating, okay. So that’s where she gained her Insta fame during COVID. She worked with a therapist who came to her house and had her write out every major life event on pieces of paper, and post it on their wall.

Laura Kåmark
And then

Dorothy Villeneuve
talk him through which this would be horrible. Through all of these major life events, if people would do more of that, if you would sit down and say, here’s when things have been really great. Here’s when things have been really transformative. Here’s the things that changed me. Here’s the things that made me who I am. And then you brought that to the table as part of your unique brilliance and part of your business. You would blow the living snot out of anybody that’s out there and no one can show up like you. No one can be that person. No one has that lived experience. And that coupled with your skills, and coupled with things that makes you profitable, is your unique brilliance. Because no one’s lived the life you’ve lived. That’s what I would suggest people do. Maybe not pay a therapist, but write some stuff down on a piece of paper about their lived experience and their transformative events and the big stuff they’ve done, even when they didn’t think it was big.

Laura Kåmark
That is the stuff. I love that so much. And I think that’s absolutely amazing advice. And I don’t know who she is. I will find her and follow her and I will link her up in the show notes as well.

Dorothy Villeneuve
Yes, she’s fun. She’s really fun.

Laura Kåmark
Can you tell our listeners where they can find you hang out with you learn more about how you can help them.

Dorothy Villeneuve
sure everybody can come to Northern Ontario, Canada where it’s really incredibly snowy and I’m sick of being here. And maybe invite me to live at your house in Bali, because I’m done. I am on the interwebs at Dorothy villeneuve.com. I am also on Instagram at Dorothy Villeneuve coaching, which I’m currently fighting with because my cap cup keeps uploading and being off sound. I’m also on Tik Tok at Dorothy Vaughn have and I’m on Facebook. At Dorothy Villeneuve coaching you just need to put Dorothy Villeneuve coaching into stuff and then I’ll come up and you can find the podcast at wildly confident sales. That’s my podcast. Wonderful to hear more drivel from me.

Laura Kåmark
I will link all of that up in the show notes. Dorothy, thank you so much for being here today. This was so much fun.

Dorothy Villeneuve
Thank you. I had so much fun to Laura. It’s always fun. It’s it’s a blast.

Laura Kåmark
Thanks so much for listening to this week’s episode. Be sure to check out the show notes at Laurakamark.com/podcast. And if you’re ready to turn your website into a marketing machine, get more sales, save time and simplify the back into your business. Grab my free resource power integrations for your website. Head on over to Laurakamark.com/power. Thanks so much for listening. See you next week. Bye now.