Laura Kåmark
Hey everyone. Welcome to the Be bold make waves podcast, a show bringing you inspiring stories of women who are growing and scaling their business. I’m your host, Laura Kåmark, a website and tech integration specialist who works with online business owners who love their work and not their website. Join me as we have incredible conversations about business mindset, productivity, and, of course, the website and tech behind the business. Let’s go ahead and dive in to this week’s episode. Hello, and welcome back to today’s show. For those of you who don’t already know me, I’m Laura Kåmark. A website and tech automation specialist works with women who love their work, but not their website. I’m so excited to introduce you to my guest and good friend today, Erica Nash. Erica is a curriculum designer who specializes in helping six and seven figure course creators simplify and streamline their programs for more efficient and impactful experience. She’s the host of the podcast, next level course creator, where she has candid conversations with course creators and industry experts about what it’s like to grow a successful program and support students at a high level. Erica, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Can you tell our listeners just a little bit more about you and how you help people?

Erica Nash
Yeah, thank you so much for having me, I’m excited to get to chat with you. Um, so yeah, I am a curriculum designer and course strategist for coaches who have hybrid programs. So they have a course. And they have a group coaching component. And they are really involved in the course experience. So it’s not necessarily that they have like a course. And it’s totally self LED. And they are just kind of behind the scenes, making sure that like the tech is all working and like the students are on their own, it’s more of they are directly involved. Maybe they have weekly calls, maybe they have some sort of avenues for support, giving their students opportunities to get feedback, or maybe some group coaching on like zoom calls or whatever that might be. And so yeah, I help them really make their courses where they are more efficient, more effective, and just essentially creating an experience that their students are going to want to come back to, again and again, and really creating those like super fans, and the ones that are going to help them not only grow their revenue, because they’re going to buy everything they do, because they’ve totally bought in, but also grow their community because they’re going to tell other people how amazing this person is. So that’s kind of it in a nutshell.

Laura Kåmark
I love that so much. And I think that’s so important because word of mouth is key. In the online space. Especially. I mean, I know when I’m in a program, and I’m having an amazing experience and seeing just incredible results. I can’t tell enough people about it. And when I see someone and I’m like, I they’re telling me a problem they have I’m like you should come join us over in this program, because here’s all the amazing Ness that you’ll get in there. So I think it’s so important. It’s not just about getting people in the door, you have to really have a good experience once they’re in the door. Because that’s, that’s what’s going to make or break your business.

Erica Nash
Yes, yeah, it really is in and I think, I don’t know, it feels like we have shifted almost in this way of like, you know, what my my, like 2011 2013 online courses really kind of started gaining some traction, started growing 2018 2020 We really hit like they were really popular, everybody was kind of talking about them. A lot of people, if you were already in the online world, you saw a lot of people like releasing courses and stuff. And after 2020, we really started seeing a shift in the clients who were purchasing those courses really wanting something more, really wanting something more than just this, like, here, kind of not that we were offloading, you know, the responsibility or whatever, but kind of saying, like, here’s this content and go do it. They’re really looking for community, they’re really looking for support, they’re really looking for somewhere to belong, especially when we were all in lockdown. And we really were just not out in the world with each other anymore. And online courses are not going to go away. And so we really have to look at, you know, how do we shift the model of this sort of asynchronous self led and not even asynchronous because that can be done that can be done with a lot of support as well but the self led onset, like how do we transform that into something that allows for students to be, I don’t know, to find this place where they feel supported, and they feel welcome. They feel like they’re seen and heard and loved for who they are. And just really kind of taking that in and turning it into this really welcomed place, but also making it sustainable for the course creator, because that’s an important piece too. And so all of that is so involved in this process of creating these super fans that will give you all of the referrals. I

Laura Kåmark
love that so much. Can you tell our listeners how to get into this? What’s what’s kind of the backstory on how you got into your business.

Erica Nash
So I was a teacher, and I taught for 10 years, and I loved it, it was my entire identity, if I’m being completely honest, I mean it everything. Like when I look back, like on, you know, memories from like, my social media posts, and I mean, it was all about being a teacher, I loved my students, I loved what I did. The majority of my experience was with teenagers teaching them culinary arts, so it was not I mean, it was just so much fun. It was just a lot of fun. But there was always a piece of me, I think I started my first quote unquote, business, right, like in 2011, probably from 2011 to 2013. And it was it was art type stuff. And so from then on, you know, like it shifted and changed. And I did lots of different types of things. But it was always entrepreneurial. So I always had that sort of drive to do something outside of, you know, my career as a teacher. But when 2020 hit, I well let me back up, I had already I already had some chronic health issues, but when 2020 hit, and the level of stress involved in teaching, skyrocketed, and to be completely frank, my my body and my brain, were just not equipped to handle it. And so I knew I was at the end. Well, that was in my 10th year. And I knew that like I didn’t want to leave before 10 years, like I had always said like, I’ve really thought I was gonna retire as a teacher. But I thought if I ever do anything else, like I do want it to be after 10 years. And so it was my 10th year. And it started in October. And it was already I already knew at that point, like, Oh, I’m going to have to make some decisions here because I don’t see how I can continue with my body the way that it is, and do this job well, and take care of the students the way they that they need to be taken care of teach them the way they need to be taken care of, and be a mom and be a wife and all of the other things, you know that I’ll be there hats that I wear. And so it was February? Well, it was the end of January 2021. And I had I told my husband, you know what I am going to, I’m gonna finish the year, and then I’ll be done. Like, I’ll take this time to figure out whatever I’m going to do next. And and then we’ll go from there. So like I’ll let you know, go through me, we’ll be good. We’ll, I’ll do something else. And then the very next week, I had a really bad flare, couldn’t get out of bed. And then together, we made the decision like, Okay, it’s time like, I’m not going to be able to make it to the end of the year. And oh my gosh, it’s making me like a little bit emotional. It was the hardest decision, like career wise that I ever had to make. It was so hard. And it was the wildest thing to have to go to school. Like the next time I was able to and tell my students like, today is literally going to be the last day that I’m here with you like, and there’s very lots of tears on all of our I mean, it was just, it was really, really heartbreaking. But it, it changed my life like it. I mean, now I’m two years removed, just sort of celebrated my two year freedom from education, which now I’m seeing things like in a very different light. Because I’m healthy, I’m healed. And so I’m two years removed and my stress levels are nowhere near where they were they’re almost non existent. And all of that to say is I started as a teacher and kind of took Got a little bit of a journey. And I know I skipped some in there. But I took a little bit of a journey to get here to where I am, where I’m still using the skills that I was using as a teacher, but not having to deal with the stress that came with being a teacher. And so there were some things in between I pivoted a couple of times, but ultimately landed where my heart was, and where my skills are, and figured out a way to make that work. For for a business for myself, and truly, it came about through, you know, just, I love education, obviously, like I’m obsessed with learning. But I also like I love to learn. And so I was taking a bunch of online courses myself and just saw an opportunity for these course creators, you know, that are often DIY in their programs. And it’s not to say that they’re not doing that well. But sometimes, as these programs grow, they just needed some support, some expert eyes to come in somebody who wasn’t so involved, you know, emotionally in their content, to be able to make some unbiased decisions, and objective decisions about the content.

Erica Nash
That’s such a powerful story.

Laura Kåmark
I didn’t know all of that. So thank you for sharing. I think there’s such an important piece that you brought up there, too, about how, like, when we’re so close to it, we can’t always see where like, maybe the holes are stuff like that. I know, with clients, I do a lot of testing and the work that I do, because I’m setting up a lot of the automations. There’s a lot of testing and run through that. And I remember I had a friend, I was helping with something which she had like a sales page for something she was launching. And I went through, I’m like, well just test it, make sure don’t forget to test the checkout. And she was like, Oh, I wouldn’t have even thought to do that. And to me, it’s just second nature. I mean, I did testing in corporate when I was on projects. And that was what I’m just really good at, because I’m so detail oriented. And I see the big picture. And I also think of all these other little ways it should work. That’s just how my brain works. And so it’s so interesting that when we are close to it, we also there’s we all have different skill sets. And for us, it comes so natural, I mean, I am always just so impressed when I see teachers that go and come into the online space and create these courses and programs and just it takes off. Because in my brain I really struggle with like outlining, and I wing a lot of things, I don’t do a lot of notes, like when I do a presentation, I just, it’s hard for me to take all the thoughts and put it on paper. And I find a lot of the times, and this could just be something that I’ve observed, I’m not gonna say it’s all across the board. But I feel I have this like idea that teachers are so good at that, because of all the years spent doing lesson plans, and planning ahead. And it’s fascinating to me how I see, they work through all that. So I love that you’re able to take that skill set that you have, and just really apply it to the online space and help people have better programs that are able to support their students

Unknown Speaker
succeed.

Erica Nash
Yeah, thank you. And and yeah, I think you’re right. I mean, it is just, you know, school and years of knowing how to how to do those things, having to do it every day, multiple times a day, most of the most of the time. And it’s funny, though, because it took me a little while to recognize that that was like a valuable skill. And there was a there was a whole other side of of leaving, teaching and moving into the online space, like full time that I didn’t realize I was going to come up against. And so there was a there was a period of time where it was very much, I guess I would say an identity crisis. And this idea of like, if I’m not a teacher, who am I? And how like that cannot fit in this space over here. And so there was a little bit of a journey, where I was like, oh, no, this actually does have value in this space. And so, so yeah, it was it was definitely quite the transition to make.

Laura Kåmark
When would you say is a good time for like your ideal client to come work with you? Like where are they in their program? Process have like, how many iterations have it done? I’m gonna go with the assumption that when someone’s just launching something, that’s probably not the time to bring you in. Right? Yeah.

Erica Nash
So well, I have something really fun in the works. That will be for those people that are, excuse me that are just starting. But it’s not ready yet. But for the people who Who I am currently working with. Typically, these are going to be people who have had about a year under their belt have. And and I say a year only because if the program is like three months, then they’ve had four iterations, right? If their program is six months, they’ve had at least two, or they’ve had a year’s worth, like if their program is 12 months, they’ve had a year’s worth, and all of that they’ve had a year’s worth of data to collect, to be able to show me so that I can help them then make data driven decisions. Because that’s, that’s the name of the game like, and I am never going to go into somebody’s program and make suggestions just because it’s trendy, or because you know, this other course creators doing it, and it’s working for them, or because of whatever, like it’s always going to be data driven. And so that is one of the big things is that they have had about a year under their belts of students going through their course, it can be different iterations. But preferably, it would have been one iteration where they’re able to gather a bunch of data, and it’s not constantly changing. Um, the other thing is that, you know, kind of, like I said earlier, they’re at a point where they are helping their students directly, like they are directly involved. And that’s not to say that they’re like, doing a ton of like, one on one kind of stuff. But, you know, they are not completely removed from the course experience they are, they have a hand in supporting them, they’ve given them opportunities to be able to interact with each other within the community as well as with themselves, even if it’s in a group setting. And they are also at a point where the course was probably DIY at the very beginning, right, like they had this goal, the stream, they put together this course. And then over time, it’s kind of grown, maybe become a little bit bloated. As students are asking questions, they’re creating new things and, and putting in, you know, extra modules and extra lessons, maybe they’re doing bonus content, maybe they’re at the point where like, they raised the price a couple of times, but along with that price raise, they are unconsciously justifying the value. So they’re like packing it full of bonuses. And so their program is doing what it needs to do. But maybe they’re hearing from students like, Oh, this is a lot of content. This is overwhelming. Where do I start? I don’t really know how to find things, stuff like that.

Laura Kåmark
I’ve definitely been in courses like that. And in programs where I get in, I’m like, now what do I do? And it is it’s overwhelming. And it sometimes can be a less is more. Yes.

Erica Nash
Yes, I love Less is more, because a lot of times what happens and again, it just comes, it comes from a good place. It comes from a place of giving, right? Like I fully believe that course creators create courses because they want to help people, and they want to do their best to like really offer that value, they tend to be like very nurturing. And in that nurturing, they tend to give a lot of themselves away. And so in an effort to be really helpful, they offer all of these things. But in reality, it’s not super necessary. When we look at this, the course creation through the lessons more lens, we can really pare stuff down to offer only what is necessary to reach the goal and have more of an impact and really get students making progress really quickly.

Laura Kåmark
Yeah, cuz that’s, I mean, that’s the ultimate goal is we want I know I like for me, I love to watch my clients succeed. Like that’s, to me, the biggest reward is the work I’m doing. And I know it’s the same with my course grader clients that that’s like, we want our students to succeed. Like that’s, that’s huge. That’s what we want. You know it. I know, I have my DIY Website Launch Kit, and I’ve had people buy it and I can see in member vault like they’ve never looked at it like it’s there. And I’m guilty of that, too. I have so many courses I’ve purchased over the years I’ve never opened, but I have it,

Erica Nash
you know, saying

Laura Kåmark
what would you say is one of like the biggest mindset challenges you had to overcome in your business.

Erica Nash
It would definitely go back to the identity crisis and just the idea of me sort of having value outside of the classroom. And it really kind of in this was through a lot of support a lot of outside voices that were really gentle with me This came through a lot of like, outside coaching and all of that, but recognizing that my hang up was that I felt like, I didn’t belong in the online space that, you know, like, I was kind of an out, I was this teacher, right. And like, I had this other. And as a teacher, I had a community. When I left teaching, I felt like I had abandoned that community. And now I didn’t have one. And so it was very much like, you know, I don’t belong here. I don’t I don’t have a network. That was a story I kept telling myself, you know, I don’t have people that I can reach out to or make offers to or all of these things. And if I did, if I did kind of think of like, oh, well, maybe I could reach out to this person, the story would be, well, why What do you have to offer them. And so that was probably the most challenging thing. And like I said, that, that it didn’t happen without a lot of support, and I still find myself coming up against it. But the time between, like recognizing it is shorter than it was before. I can recover faster.

Laura Kåmark
So what do you do when you feel that coming up? When you’re now when that like, hits you? Is there something that do you have like a mantra you tell yourself? Or do you have like some great self talk of like, how amazing you are?

Erica Nash
I do. I’m a Christian, prayer is a really big part of that. And so like, just having that sort of faith that my worth is not in my work, and it’s elsewhere is really helpful. I have, you know, like I said, you know, support from people who are just really kind and gentle with me and really understand the online business space, I have their words in my head. The one that is really the most prominent is I guess, I guess I can just kind of tell this, this was kind of an involved story. So we were at a retreat, and we were all kind of talking about this, this idea of me like not feeling like I belong. And we were talking about how I was going to produce this podcast, I hadn’t started yet I was going to produce this podcast, and that I was afraid that I was not going to have enough people to reach out to to interview. And so all of you guys were like asking questions. And so you know, I was telling, I was telling you all sort of what the podcast was about what the point was. And

Erica Nash
Lee Scott asked, so

Erica Nash
is somebody else having this conversation? And I said, Well, no, no, not really not that I’ve, you know, not that I’ve noticed. And she said, well, then build your own table. Of course, you belong at your own table.

Erica Nash
And I was like, what,

Erica Nash
like, my mind was just completely blown. And like, literally, it changed my life. Like, I don’t know what it unlocked. But it was something that was just like, so. I mean, that’s so simple. But it was so profound, that it really, truly gave me the ability to change the way that I think about inviting people to the podcast, or even just like, reaching out and just introducing myself, like before, it would have been, Oh, I could never do that, you know. But then I have this this on, I mean, I have it on my habit on my computer over here on a sticky note, because, like, I have to reference it often. And so reminding myself that, like it’s my table, and I get to invite whoever I want to it, and I belong here. And I get to help other people feel like they belong to. And yeah, that’s, that’s probably been one of the biggest things.

Laura Kåmark
I love that that was such so we were both so our audience knows we were both at this retreat, and it was just the most profound moment. And when Lisa in the whole room got silent, everyone kind of just sat back a little bit. And the mic just, you know, echoed as it fell off the ground. It was so good and so inspiring. I for all of us. I think it changed all our lives. I mean, I think that story all the time of what she said and because I have the same mindset stuff that will come up when I’m reaching out to people to be on the podcast, and

Erica Nash
it’s it’s my table. Yeah, yeah, and

Erica Nash
It still blows my mind. Like, it’s such a simple concept. And I’m like, Why didn’t I think about it that way before but you know, when you have, when you have all of this mind stuff going on, like, sometimes you’re not the best person to be like telling yourself, whatever, you need an outside voice and and that outside voice has really stuck and I believe will continue to stick.

Laura Kåmark
I think right there, that’s also the importance in being in a mastermind and having like a supportive network of other business owners around you that, you know, help cover you in that warm, fuzzy blanket when you need it and also help like, rip off the band aid when you need to hear the hard things.

Erica Nash
Absolutely, absolutely. And, and that’s one, that’s one of the reasons why I love working with course creators that are at the phase that they are of the people that I work with, you know, they’re they’re involved, is because of the community aspect, because that adds so much value to the entire course offer like absolutely somebody that has a self like course, like I fully believe that there is value in that, and there’s a place for that. But my heart is where there’s community involved, because it just adds a whole different level of support that they might not be able to implement the strategies if that support is not in place. And what happens is, if the support is not in place where they’re able to like go and like process some of these things that they’re thinking, there’s going to be, it becomes a roadblock, right. And so like maybe the course creator is asking them to do something, and maybe on the course creators part, this doesn’t feel like something that’s very scary. But to the course taker, it feels really scary, so becomes a roadblock, right. And if there’s no one that they can process that information with, then what’s going to happen is most of the time, that course taker, that student is going to get stuck, and they are not going to move forward, and then they’re going to disengage. And what’s going to happen is once they’re disengaged, it’s really hard to get them back for one. But two, it’s been in their mind, a lot of times is going to be like, Well, that didn’t work for me. That wasn’t you know, that didn’t work for me don’t take that course that one didn’t that one didn’t work, take this other course you know, where they’re getting their needs met. And so we have to kind of look at those things, we have to look at the community aspect is a need, rather than like a bonus.

Laura Kåmark
If someone is listening to this podcast right now, and they, they the course they have the community, and they’re like, how do I? What would be some first steps? Should they be like serving their audience? Should they be doing interviews with current students? Should they bring in outside like what’s what’s some actionable steps people can take to just start even get the process started of finding out what how to better support their community?

Erica Nash
Yeah, first, the answer is always to gather data. Always, always always. And so whether that’s bringing in somebody like me, like I’ll go in and audit and do all of the things or doing it yourself, the first process, or the first step of the process is going to be looking at things like what is the overall goal of the course? And how does everything fit into that goal? I’m looking at, you know, the content, and literally going in and looking at the like video analytics, who’s watching? What are they watching? How much of it? Are they watching? Are they actually watching all of the video? Or are they watching bits and pieces of it and like that kind of stuff? student interviews is a great way to go right to the source, asking questions. And also being prepared for answers that you don’t really like. So I don’t typically recommend that people do this, if they’re in a phase of their life where they can’t handle feedback that might not be very kind. So if somebody is just in a really vulnerable state and kind of feeling raw, I would not recommend going in and like doing student interviews and all of that stuff like yes, there’s probably going to be some really wonderful things that come out of that. But there will also be some really hard things that come out of that. And so just kind of a caveat there. But really taking a deep dive into the data, collecting information from students and really just taking a good hard look at what you’re presenting to the world versus what’s going on inside the course. And do those match up and like you know If you’re selling, you know, if you take this course, you’re going to be able to x, y, z. And inside the course, you’re able to do X, Y, Z, A, B, C, D, just kind of not saying that that’s a bad thing. But it can lead to like that sense of overwhelm, and all of that stuff as well. Does that need to be pulled out to a separate course? What do we need to pare down? What do we need to add to? So that’s kind of a little further down the line. But as far as first steps is to gather data, or

Laura Kåmark
I love that so much. I think I mean, the data is so important in our businesses, I know, I talk to clients all the time, and they’re, you know, wanting to make changes to things. I’m like, Well, what’s your what’s your opt in rate? How many people are viewing the page, because a lot of the time I find with my people is they just need more eyes on their offer. Yeah. And that’s really the next like, just, you need to tell more people about it.

Erica Nash
And I would kind of add to that, I would also say that, like, Don’t ever make changes. Without data. Like, a lot of times, you know, and I see people doing this, they go into their courses, and they change things, because they got one piece of negative feedback, because they are, you know, maybe not getting the exact results they want right now. And so they feel like they have to change a lot of things. So they’re kind of assuming that they know exactly what the problem is, and, and maybe they’re totally out in the money, it’s very possible. But sometimes that’s really not the case. And when we make changes, based on feelings and not facts, we create a lot more work for ourselves. And oftentimes, we create a lot more work and a lot more roadblocks for our students. So good,

Laura Kåmark
so good. What would you say is something you’re really proud of when I’m I’m so big on celebrating, you know this about me. I love celebrating with wine and cheese. I am just really big on celebrating my friends and colleagues. And I would love to know what’s something that you’re really proud of that you’ve accomplished in your business?

Erica Nash
Honestly, that I didn’t burn it all down. I am, I really am just so because there was a time where it was like, You know what, maybe this is not what I want to do. When in my heart of hearts, I knew that it is exactly what I wanted. But business is hard. And sometimes you get on that ledge and you’re like, maybe I should just burn all of this down. And then that’s again, where you know, you have community that really sort of gently talk to you off that ledge and remind you like just to keep going and so I’m just really proud that it’s still here.

Laura Kåmark
They take the matches out of your hand. Like we’re gonna set this over here. Let’s go walk over here and have a little chat. Yes, yeah, I, I’ve been there. I’ve been there many times.

Erica Nash
For sure. Oh, my gosh, I

Laura Kåmark
love that. So there’s not a lot of people talking about this. Like, I’d like to talk a little bit about your podcast and kind of the conversations that you have there. Can we Yeah. Can you talk a little bit more about the next level course creator podcast?

Erica Nash
Yeah. So the podcast is I really wanted to give course creators a space to have really candid conversations about the lesser talked about things involved in running a course where they’re supporting students at a really high level, because it’s different then one running a self led course. But to most of the conversations surrounding course creation are about marketing. And like getting new leads, or just setting up a first course, there’s not really a lot, at least in my research, there’s probably something out there, but I haven’t come across it yet. There’s not a whole lot being talked about the actual, like nitty gritty details, of course creation, and especially at this level. And I really just wanted to offer course creators a place to talk about those kinds of things. And obviously, like, I just love, I just love those conversations. I love conversations that are not like just the expected. Like, I really like to kind of dig deep. And I also just, I just love to talk about all things learning. And so it gave me a space to really kind of nerd out about that kind of stuff. But yeah, that’s that’s really the point of it. And it’s It’s been really fun.

Erica Nash
And yeah,

Laura Kåmark
I love that so much. Because, yeah, I’ve listened to your podcast, it’s fabulous. I love the conversations you’re having with the course creators on there, there’s we’ve had, we’ve had a number of overlap in some of our interviewees, our guests. And it’s been really fun. I enjoy listening to those conversations. And I’ll make sure to link that up in the show notes as well. Thank you, what would you say you’re doing? That’s being bold in the industry? I think we kind of already touched on this a little bit. But yeah,

Erica Nash
I think, I don’t know,

Erica Nash
I think that maybe, I don’t know if challenging is the right word, but maybe challenging.

Erica Nash
The current course,

Erica Nash
model, I’m in and really looking at, like, you know, let’s really involve educational strategies, to educational content, and not making it look like school. But, you know, all of those all of those strategies and theories, they’re research based. And so if they apply to public education, they also apply to private education, which is what this is. And, you know, there are different theories concerning teaching children and teaching adults. And so really kind of looking at that. And so, you know, I don’t know, yeah, it would really be challenging this idea

Erica Nash
of the course creation experience. Being,

Erica Nash
I don’t even know how to say it like, like, as a student, you’re solely responsible for XYZ. And my challenge is that it is a very give and take partnership, where the course creator, is responsible for creating a course that is the best course that they’re able to produce, with opportunities for, you know, support and growth and all of that stuff for the student. And then the student is responsible for engaging to the best of their ability. And until both of those pieces are there, we’re unable to have the best course experience possible. Right. And so I think a lot of what we’ve seen in the past is that there is this course, that has been created, and is, of course, absolutely valuable, and incredible. But oftentimes, it’s like, okay, my parts done now. Now you get to take it, and now you’re responsible for the rest. And yeah, I’m challenging that idea. And it’s in it’s scary, and it’s not always welcome. And not everybody agrees. And that’s totally okay. And like I said, there is a place and a time for that self led course.

Erica Nash
But yeah,

Erica Nash
I think that there’s something to be said for the experience that a client gets when

Erica Nash
there’s a little more involvement on on the course creators part. I love that so much. Yeah,

Laura Kåmark
I, as someone who’s again, taking lots of self led courses, and then also invested in programs that have curriculum, as well as the community and the coaching. I don’t want self led courses anymore. I want to be where I can get coached. And I’m just, I’m at that level in my business I want I’m here for the coaching. I’m here for the community. I’m here for the support. And so really being in programs that that are geared towards the focus of the success of the client with those aspects is something that I’m I look for,

Erica Nash
for sure. Yeah. So I love that so much.

Laura Kåmark
Well, Erica, I have one final question that I asked everyone who comes on the show. And that is what is one piece of advice you would give to someone when they’re first starting out that would help them be bolder, be louder and make weights in their business.

Erica Nash
You know, I think we’ve already touched on it quite a bit in this episode, but it would absolutely be support finding support, whether that is a coach or a group of people that are like minded enough to you to understand what you’re going through, but not quite so like minded that they can’t challenge and stretch you or what whoever it might be, but finding support where because there are going to be times where you come up against things that you can’t process on your own. And it’s so valuable to have outside voices that can lead you in a direction in a healthy way. And also kind of challenge you to think differently, and change maybe a broken paradigm that you’re operating in, or change your beliefs about something or change your story about something. Because there are things that we operate in that we can’t see. But other people can that can be problematic and get in the way of our business journeys.

Erica Nash
I love that so much.

Laura Kåmark
I think that’s excellent advice. And a great place for us to finish up the episode. Erica, can you tell our listeners where they can find you hanging out with you? Find out more about you. For

Erica Nash
sure. My website, Eric and nash.com Er, I see a and I’m on Instagram occasionally at Eric and ash design. And then on my podcast. Next level of course creator, Apple, Spotify.

Unknown Speaker
It’s also on my website. Awesome.

Laura Kåmark
I will link all that up in the show notes. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. This was so much fun.

Erica Nash
So fun. Thank you for having me.

Laura Kåmark
Thanks so much for listening to this week’s episode. Be sure to check out the show notes at laurakamark.com/podcast. And if you’re ready to turn your website into a marketing machine, get more sales, save time and simplify the back into your business. Grab my free resource power integrations for your websites. Head on over to Laurakamark.com/power. If you enjoyed today’s episode, make sure subscribe. And also, I’ll just love you forever if you leave me a review. It helps get this podcast in front of other people that it can help inspire. Thanks so much for listening. I’ll see you next week. Bye now!