Laura Kåmark [00:00:01]:

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Be Bold, Make Waves podcast. A show bringing you inspiring stories of women who are growing and scaling their business.

Laura Kåmark [00:00:10]:

I’m your host Laura Kamark, a website and tech integration specialist who works with online business owners who love their work and not their website. Join me as we have incredible conversations about business mindset, productivity, and, of course, the website and tech behind the business. Let’s go ahead and dive in to this week’s episode. Hello, and welcome to today’s show. For those of you who don’t already know me, I’m Laura Kamark, a website and tech automation specialist for women who love their work but not their website. I am so excited to introduce you to my guest today, Shauna Van Mourik. An advocate for making a positive impact on the world, Shauna uses her skills to create a space where ambitious women feel comfortably confident leading authentically and inspiring ripples in their communities. Using custom organic content marketing, Shauna helps female service based entrepreneurs to attract aligned clients who are already and excited to invest. She does this by digging deep into their purpose, asking tough questions and leveraging their unique personal brand. Psychology based, goal oriented, and people focused, Shauna believes that marketing confidence makes a difference and that not it not only has to convert but feel good too. Shauna, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Can you tell the listeners a little bit about the backstory of how you started your business?

Shauna Van Mourik [00:01:39]:

Yeah, absolutely. So goodness gracious. It’s one of those things that I’ve always tried to summarize, and it winds up being this tale of tails. So I started out I’ve always loved writing. I feel like that’s what writers usually say, but I’ve always loved writing, but I was always told that it wasn’t lucrative, I guess, becoming a writer or an author or something to that effect, was akin to becoming a rock star Right? It just it didn’t happen to everyone. In fact, it happened to very few people. And so I put that on the background and pursued psychology. which is another of my passions. I love people. I love interactions between people, cultures, anthropology, and all of the different ologies that are mixed in with what it means to be human. And that was amazing, but it wasn’t quite enough. I got into that field, and it was good, but it wasn’t great. Right? during that process, I learned about blogging, and I’m like, oh, I can totally blog. So I did that. I did it for myself, and I did it freelance for other people. again, it wasn’t quite enough. So then I was like, alright, we’ve gotta we gotta figure something out here. Started to learn about you know, what would it what would it take to to do something more with this? I went back to school, glutton for punishment, and I got a second degree in English, rhetoric, and professional writing. For anybody who doesn’t know, rhetoric is very simply put the art of persuasion So you take psychology, you take the art of persuasion, and you take professional writing, and you pretty much shake that up in a jar, and what you come out with is version copywriting. So I dove head first into the world of conversion copywriting. From there, I just I I branched out. I just went not and I started studying all the different ways to create website sales pages, email sequences, the works. Right? and then I went a step further because I wanted to make sure that the marketing assets that I was creating were actually producing the results that we needed them to produce We needed people to see the websites, see the sales pages, log in to and receive those email sequences, and that requires marketing Mhmm. That requires truly driving traffic, and it’s as simple as that. So a dove into that world. And now, you know, I’m I’m all about organic content marketing, which essentially just means no paid ads. You’re creating this yourself. You’re sharing it yourself across platforms. social media, emails, the works. And then also because it is an extremely important part of everything that we do, I dove into brand messaging. All of the things that you put out into the world in brand messaging and organic content marketing, which includes the the copy written assets you know, like I just described the website, sale pages, etcetera. They all need to, in my humble opinion, have some element of conversion copy rating. Even when you’re just showing up on social media and you’re like, I wanna do this post. that post should be copywritten in some way. It should absolutely because no. I could go off, but surely Copy writing. Again, very simply put are words that get people to take action. And if you’re posting on social media, even if you’re just sharing a story about yourself, it should drive some sort of action. Maybe they just wanna learn more about you. That’s copy written if it works. So, yeah, that’s the that’s the long and short of it.

Laura Kåmark [00:05:07]:

I love that so much. So do you find do you have, like, a signature framework that you try to follow when you are writing for yourself or for your clients, like, when you’re talking about, you know, creating like a social media post. maybe when you’re going, like, doing a real or something going live. Is there a certain, like, framework that you use that you try to follow for that?

Shauna Van Mourik [00:05:28]:

So yes and no because there are very there are lots of layers. Right? So I’m always going to be an advocate for things like Donald Miller’s story brand. Yeah. The story brand model is an amazing model. You really wanna dive into that. It’s great for guidance. And, I mean, you you wanna it’s it’s a model for a reason. Right? Like, it’s a framework. But if you take it too literally, if you always use the same sort of model, then that’s not gonna work out very for you. So you wanna take the key principles of that and integrate it with a number of other things. And to make sure that everything’s in alignment with your main goal because I’m very goal oriented, coming from psychology space, it’s really important to make sure that all of your actions and all of your decisions lead up towards that goal, all of those decisions in marketing. So I combine that with things like the 12 week year framework and how your wrapping it out. So sometimes you’re creating multiple pieces that follow a framework when they go together. Yep. Right? So It can be a little bit complicated in that way, but generally speaking. If I were to tell you to show up, You’re like, I don’t know what to do. I would tell you that there are three steps. The first step is your hook. the thing you do to reach out to grab your attention. You wanna make sure that this is really engaging, something that’s make gonna make something go, oh, oh, and then they wanna they wanna dive in further. The next part, of course, is that transformation. This is where people often you’ll hear people say, oh, provide value. this big word value. And so I like to use the word transformation because no matter what you give to them, if it is a transformation, you have provided value, and that transformation can very easily look like a tip or trick on how to do we or something like that, but it can also just be introducing a different way to look at something. Yeah. or telling a story about your life that they didn’t maybe know about that resonates with them and that makes them think about their own lives maybe differently. Right? It’s just that little little switch. It doesn’t need to be profound. Right? It’s just a transformation. And then the final thing, and this is super important, is, of course, your call to action. What do they do next? Yep. That can be buy now. That can be read more. that can be engaged further, follow, comment, share, like whatever you want it to be, but encourage them to join the conversation. in some way, shape, or form.

Laura Kåmark [00:08:03]:

I love that so much. And I really enjoy that you brought up Story Brand. I will actually link that up in the show notes. There’s a great training that Donald Miller put out. That’s, like, the 5 minute marketing makeover, I believe, but I’ll link it up in the notes. And it’s it’s so good. and I send that to all my clients because I don’t write copy for my clients. I either I give them resources. I send them names of copywriters that they can work with, but I do not write copy. That is outside of my wheelhouse and not something I provide for clients. I recommend if they they go watch that training because there’s so much in there that really again, like, the the feedback I’ve gotten from clients that I’ve shared it with. They’re like, you need to be sharing this with everyone.

Shauna Van Mourik [00:08:46]:

It is absolutely amazing. And if you read the book, you get even more I’m I’m just enlightened because you can see it functioning really well in big brands and in small brands and just the way he describes it, you just go, well, duh.

Laura Kåmark [00:09:05]:

Exactly. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So so good. I’m so glad you brought that up. So when in what part of their journey do you find that people are normally coming to you? Like, when is it when they’re first starting out? Is it after they’ve been in business for a few years. Who’s your, like, perfect client? When are they coming to you?

Shauna Van Mourik [00:09:25]:

So those are two different questions. people are coming to me typically when they’ve reached a plateau. When they’ve gotten to a point, and this can be early on in their in their journey, or it can be a little bit later in their journey that people come to me when they’re not earning, but next to nothing. And they just simply don’t know how to show up for themselves. and they’ve tried and they’ve just reached this point where they’re like they had all this hustle at the beginning. They tried to show up. It’s not working. They’re they’re just not the traction just isn’t there. I had people when they’ve they’ve been showing up for 3 to 5 years, and they’re finding, oh, man. You know what? kinda working kind of doing the thing, but something’s not hitting right. The usually in that case, it’s your brand messaging. That’s when you really wanna hunker down in that world. And then people who are very successful, but they want to break that the glass ceiling for themselves. They wanna stop becoming the bottleneck to their own success. and they wanna take it to the next level. That’s when you’re reaching, like, you know, those 6 k peep or, sorry, 6 6 figure people who are just like, alright. Listen. enough with the games already. We’re gonna break this ceiling, and I need somebody to just do the thing. Do the do. I wanna show up on these platforms. I open these ways. I wanna have these different that’s when you turn essentially your regular marketing into, like, spider web marketing where everything’s interconnected and functions like like COGS. They’re just it’s just beautiful the way that works. So so, I mean, in that general way, Truly, it’s it’s just that plateau where they’re they need that next step. My ideal client The people who I can serve the best based on my expertise tend to be progressives, female service based entrepreneurs, typically in the space of brain science. So that can look like therapists, coaches, people who are ready really ready to make an impact on the world and are leading with their hearts to and and by the world, I mean, like, truly, like, as people to people. Yeah. those are the people who I can serve the best with my skills and knowledge.

Laura Kåmark [00:11:28]:

I love that. So do you find so you do the website copy You’ll do emails, sales page. And then are you also doing social media posts?

Shauna Van Mourik [00:11:36]:

I am. No. I like you. I will tell people, you know, I’m not a web designer. don’t do the web design. I do the copy. Right? Same with social media. I mean, Instagram is a beautiful place to show up, and you do need to think about what you’re posting in your in your captions. that’s where I can hop out. But if you want the graphics to be done, you’re gonna want a graphic designer. And like you, I have a list of people who I vetted who I know are amazing people who have different specializations, skills, and strategies that they use that work really well with my own strategies and I can refer to those people if you need that visual aspect. But, yes, I write the captions on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn. Don’t do Twitter. Not Twitter for me. And then I’m also helping people typically with things like blogs because a lot of times when you’re working in the brain space, You need to have these resources available for your clients and for your prospective clients to really sink their teeth into to understand the degree to which they’re creating change within their world because a lot of times that’s what coaches, mentors, and therapists are providing for. their clients. Yeah. So I wind up use doing blocks. Goodness. I could list that. So I I’ve also helped people with, like, podcast notes and articles like actual, like, citation articles because they do have a background in psychology, You name it. You name it. Lead magnets. Lead magnets can be really fun too because typically that’s where you attach, you know, a a sales sequence or something to that effect. So yeah. I mean, if you can write it and if it’s a piece of your marketing, I live there. I get lit up right there.

Laura Kåmark [00:13:18]:

I love that. So what would you say that I mean, has your business always looked like this, how it does today, since you’ve got come into this conversion copywriter space or have you done some pivots along the way? I wanna hear a little more about your journey.

Shauna Van Mourik [00:13:36]:

Yeah. No. Absolutely. So goodness. It is not it is not always looked like I have not always looked like this. Okay. Like, This is the thing that I love. So you mentioned it at the beginning when I when I say, you know, I’m psychology based goal oriented in focused, and and it’s really important to understand that within that space comes a very large degree of growth and evolution, and that and and I’m not excluded from that. space. Right? So so everything that I’m doing for my clients with regards to setting them up for future success to make sure that they have a marketing plan that grows as they scale. And I mean as they scale their business but also as they scale themselves, which they take themselves to different levels of entrepreneurship, a person ship. I’ve I’m going through that, and it never will stop, and I’ve gone through that. And so I guess the most pivotal change in my business since when I started. It’s a number of years ago now. When I I used to say, and and people won’t believe me. I used to say, oh, I’m a writer not a talker. Nobody today will believe me when I say that. No. They’d be like, yeah. Okay. My foot. So That changed changing my thought process from oh, I’m alright for another talk. I don’t I don’t do video. I don’t talk. I’m not a speaker. No. that changing my mind about that changed my business, changed the way I show up, changed my confidence, all of that, and learning there are a lot of, like, little reasons why I made that change. come from learning more about yourself, which is something that you inevitably do in the business space. One thing that I attribute to this to, and I don’t know a lot about it, but I know enough about it that it has changed who I am, is human design. I don’t know if you follow it. but I love human design, and it turns out I’m a manifester, which is, like, 9% of the population, and it we’re supposed to communicate. Like, we’re supposed to be shouting about things. So when I realized that and I and this was after I changed my mind, and I said, no. No. I’m I used to I’m learning to be a better speaker. It was my transition phrase. And then about a year and a half later, I went, oh, I’m a manifester. Oh, that’s why it seems so natural for me to step into this role to learn how to push past those fears and do it anyways, do it scared, do it shy, do it as an introvert, which I am. I’m an outgoing introvert. Like, it can be really challenging, but do it anyways because it matters, because you can make a difference. So that that mindset shift changed everything in my business. I know that was a long winded explanation, but truly, it was amazing.

Laura Kåmark [00:16:36]:

Yeah. I love talking about the different mindset shifts we have as business owners. I think that’s, like, one of the things that going into entrepreneurship I feel that that a lot of my biz friends and I would agree that, like, that’s so such a big part of what the online business journey is mindset. And that’s not really what we all started these businesses wanting to get into was a these, like, mindset hurdles that we’re gonna constantly be coming up against, and, like, it never goes away.

Shauna Van Mourik [00:17:07]:

No. It shouldn’t. it shouldn’t. If you find that it has if you find you’re like, I haven’t gone through much growth lately, you’re probably stuck somewhere. You’re you’ve reached that plateau and you wanna talk to somebody who will help you push past that depending on where you’re seeing the plateau exist. If it’s marketing, it’s me.

Laura Kåmark [00:17:30]:

When you were first starting out, how are you finding clients?

Shauna Van Mourik [00:17:34]:

that’s a journey and a half. So I have had the assistance of a multitude of coaches, mentors, sales professionals who have guided me along of different ways to get clients, and all of them have worked to different degrees, which is wonderful. I am so great or what they’ve all taught me. But in the end, I really had to lean into who I am and how I how I exist in this world, and this is why again I’m people focused because that’s when I really saw the gears move. That’s when I really saw people just coming to me. So when I started showing up more regularly in my marketing as myself in a way that felt in alignment with who I am and with the goals that I had set out for myself, people are just coming to me, asking com completely colp I’ve never met this person in the world. They’re talking to me in the DMs. Hey. So I wanna have a call with you because I don’t know about x, y, zed, and I need to know how much you got. And I’m like, Okay. Excellent. This is a good thing. But then also, and I’m gonna say more impactfully, I started conversations. So not just not just in DMs and reaching out, but that is absolutely 100% something that I did in order to gain clients, in order to build up that momentum, is reaching out to people Hi. You know, I really like what you’re doing with x, y, zed. We should, like and then start a conversation naturally. Right? But then also within my marketing. So a lot of my marketing, a lot of what I put out into the world is 100% conversation starting. like how can I start the conversation? That’s so I guess that’s the transformation that I get right in in client acquisition. Just going from certain practical sales strategies to maturing into this idea of in order to generate sales for me now, start the conversation. Just say hi.

Laura Kåmark [00:19:43]:

I love that. Can you tell our listeners maybe some tips for, like, going a little deeper into that idea of starting the conversation. What are some kind of ideas that they could use to start that conversation aside from just being like, hey, How’s it going? What what are some tips or tricks you would have?

Shauna Van Mourik [00:20:00]:

Yeah. So I’m notoriously horrible at small talk. I am the person who makes things awkward, like, on the first time meeting someday because I asked them about theology or what is your opinion on this racial debate right now? So Don’t start with that. I’ve learned that much at least. But surely, in your marketing in particular. I’m gonna sound like a broken record, but truly show up as yourself, Like, nobody wants to talk to the same person or consume the same information over and over and over again. It gets boring. Show up as yourself, first of all, don’t don’t filter yourself. Don’t be late. Like, this is a realization that I had even recently. I was filtering myself because I had what I would call crazy thought. They’ll just randomly start thinking about this other thing, and I thought, oh, no. I shouldn’t say that. Say the thing. somebody else is thinking it. I guarantee somebody else is thinking it. So number 1, show up as yourself. Number 2, I would say to your research. And, again, this isn’t something you wanna hear. I know that this isn’t something that you wanna hear, but market research is your friend. Right? Ask questions. Stay curious. Find out what people actually are saying and then say it back to them with a little extra insight. See what else they have to say. Each drop into conversations and I don’t necessarily mean like literally listen, but If somebody’s having a conversation online, they’re chatting back and forth in the comments, and you’re like, oh, this is my topic. What are they saying? Yep. Right? dive into that world. What does it look like? And if I were to add a number 3 because I like the rule of 3, I would say, do it scared. be a little bit confrontational. So that ties right back into be authentic. Don’t filter yourself, but take it to the next level. Like, if you’re saying gray zone area stuff all the time. You’re gonna get raise own responses. You’re not gonna light people up. They’re gonna be like, oh, yeah. Sure. We know that already, whatever. Say the thing that nobody wants to say, be the elephant in the room and then start to tooting about it, you know, just that’s gonna start the conversation. And you don’t need and the thing is you don’t need to be all political about it, and you don’t need to be rude about it. This is something I’m really, really I will assert this to the end of my days. And in my home, I have 3 littles, and they all know this. I will tell them, what do we say? We lead with kindness always. So, yes, be con confrontational, like, Stir the pod a little bit, but don’t be mean. Don’t be rude. Never hurt. Never harm. Just say just say something like, oh, I don’t know. Everybody everybody has a a thing. Everybody does this. You did this before they go online. I do the same thing. And if somebody says like they don’t, they’re lying. That’s a conversation starter because now somebody’s gonna be like, I never do. I’m au Naturale, and I’m like, That’s just the conversation. It’s interesting. You’re not harming anybody.

Laura Kåmark [00:23:33]:

Form your opinions and share them. I love it. Yeah. I love that. What would you say to someone who is really struggling to write their copy? Because there are either so close to it, or how do they figure out if they’re trying to do it themselves? What are some tips you might have for them? of like how to write better copy that sounds that’s meant to convert. because we can all sit. We can all talk. And, like, for me, I’m very technical. You know, it’s websites, tech integrations. I find a lot of time. People don’t even know what tech integrations means. because it’s all it’s tech speak, and I always try to make sure that I don’t talk over any of my potential clients or my clients and just talk in a way that makes sense to them. But I also find that can be sometimes hard to, like, realize that I’m getting a little too techie in my talk. Yeah. Absolutely. — tips for how people can remove themselves from being so close to it and speak in a way or, you know, write in a way to speak to their ideal client.

Shauna Van Mourik [00:24:43]:

Okay. So I do have actually pretty good a pretty good outline, I suppose, for how to do that. But I wanna leave with 2 things first. The first thing because you’re talking about stepping away from it because sometimes you do get you do get caught up in it. I actually had a client one time who’s also a marketing genius. She’s wonderful. who would say, you know, you’re stuck you’re stuck in your own jar. You’re you’re swimming around in your own stuff, and you don’t even know what’s in there because you can’t see the outside where the ingredients are listed. And and that’s really true. So so in order to address that, I would say, you know, in list in list help. Right? In in list and if that could be just a friend who who gives you some feedback on what you have to say because you can get stuck in your own head. You need a pattern interrupt, and this is a very that’s again jargon y like you were saying, but it it is just something to stop yourself from spinning your wheels and just do the thing already. be conversational about it. Right? That that’s something that that can help you with omitting the jargon. be conversational and always have a goal in mind. So that’s what I wanna start with. But then over and above that, There are 3 main rules to copywriting that can help you to make it convert at a higher rate. There are a lot of strategies that go over and above this, but this is a good starting point. after you’ve kind of worked through that that headjunk that is kinda getting out of your own way and having your goal and being relaxed, conversational about it, is and I’ve broken it down to something very easy to remember. You need copy. Okay? And it’s true. It’s true. So first, you. And what I mean by you is I mean your audience. What I mean by you is use the word I sparingly because this isn’t about you as business owner. This is about you as your clients. This is about them. They are the hero hero of their own story, and that’s another Donald Miller thing. So they are the hero of their own story, not you. So you wanna talk to them. You wanna make sure that everything that you are putting out into the world is in align with alignment with them. what they want. Not what you think that they want. Not what you think that they need, what they want. So you as in Use I, sparingly, you, your clients. Need. That one again, it it’s pretty self explanatory. Establish need. Make sure that you’re speaking to their emotions. Right? People buy with emotions and they justify with logic, so make sure that you’re establishing need. You do that through storytelling. You make sure that you’re you’re not using jargon too much. You make sure that you’re speaking to them and what their unique needs are. And, again, you’re drawing back to that first. It it all builds on one another. And then the copy parts, you need copy, the copy, Very, very easy. It’s the call to action. Always have a call to action. Always have something for them to do next. Hold their hand. Make sure that Your copy is brief, concise, and straightforward. Get them moving. So that’s your 3 steps to make sure that your copywriting is compelling that it’s actually gonna work at the basic level. You need copy.

Laura Kåmark [00:28:07]:

Oh, I love that. I love that so much. That’s so helpful. Thank you for sharing that with our audience.

Shauna Van Mourik [00:28:12]:

always happy to share. I love that you do everything in threes too. That’s fun. Yeah. I don’t know. It’s come I think it comes from I’ve got a background in the fine arts. So there’s, like, rules of threes, you know, 357, all that stuff. And and so I just had this thing that, like, oh, just lots of it’s just three. It just make it’s pretty. like the pyramids and all that jazz?

Laura Kåmark [00:28:32]:

When I do custom proposals for website rebelled, I always do 3 package options for them for a client to then choose which they best fit into. But, yeah, same thing like rules. There’s 3. We like 3 small, medium, and large.

Shauna Van Mourik [00:28:46]:

It’s true. It’s absolutely true. So yeah. And it’s also easy to remember. I mean, once you get up to, like, higher numbers, then you’re gonna have a harder time remembering And everybody here, everybody listen listening will be going and approaching whatever copy they’re writing, whether it’s a social media post, your sales page, an email, your next email going out to your list, you’re gonna be like, oh, right. You need copy. Am I writing to them and not just about myself? Am I establishing need using storytelling for them and emotions for them? Have I included a call to action? Do they have what to do next because of the copy? Have I been clear and concise Right? Now you know what each of those things stand for. You’ll be able to think about them very much more easily as you’re creating the copywriting for your business.

Laura Kåmark [00:29:29]:

I know as a copywriter, I’m always fascinated how copywriters are able to write in like the voice of their client.

Shauna Van Mourik [00:29:38]:

How do you do that? Well, I mean, remember that. So first of all, as a brand messaging, try to just a lot of the times, I’m working with my clients to create a brand messaging handbook because it’s not easy. Because there are a lot of people who will say, oh, yeah. I can write it in your voice, but then it’s really just kinda like a generic voice that kinda leans towards something they said, like, Maybe they’re a yes girl, and then they do that, or maybe they’re some little tweak. I like to dive a little bit deeper and make sure that we have those underlying moods whenever I’m I’m creating copy for someone. So I always do at least a a small preliminary kind of brand messaging mood type of conversation to note any keywords that they use a lot any sort of attitudes and roots that correspond with their offers, with their brand, and make sure that they’ve got kind of something going along there. That’s the type of work that I do when I do the deep dive with people, but if I don’t have if they’re not interested in that, then that’s kind of what I pull out to the best of my ability when I’m creating a copy. If you’re doing your job right, you’re also looking at their previous work. You’re looking at what have they created in the past, and did it work? Did it not work? Do they like it, or do they not like it? How can we tweak and change to make sure that it’s going to be effective. And then finally, reviews and edits. I know it’s, like, the silliest thing but truly you can’t get it right all the time. You need to have that open door flow of conversation. We are people first. Right? So if you’re creating something, in fact, I’m doing this with a client right now, I’m creating the handbook. And there were a few words that she’s like, I don’t really feel like I used those words. Now that doesn’t mean that she doesn’t use those words because, you know, I will have heard these words, but it means that she just doesn’t feel like they’re they’re they’re not playing our heartstrings the way we want them to. So we go back and we we do a few minor tweaks and changes Maybe some mood changes too because sometimes you’ve got words that are synonyms, but the mood behind them are different. This is semiotics, another one of my geek things. that is just like the meaning of symbols and words are symbols, and so the the semiotics of the word, what it means to you when you hear it, matters. And so sometimes it’s just as easy as that. You just get the feedback and you do these little changes.

Laura Kåmark [00:32:15]:

Yeah. That’s something that’s always I mean, I struggle to write my own copy. I’ve outsourced like, all my website copy was outsourced because I struggled with it for so long, and that was the thing that was kinda holding me back. And I finally was like, you know what? Someone else can do it better.

Shauna Van Mourik [00:32:31]:

because it’s a lot — A lot of times for a client. It’s and this is what I’m hearing from a lot of people is just that it’s almost it’s fear. Right? It’s fear because you’re afraid that your voice isn’t enough. You’re afraid that your voice, which isn’t, by the way, which is enough. Your voice is always enough. You are always enough, but you have to say in how you’re showing up, being your authentic self, will always be enough. In fact, I’m going to argue it’s probably more than enough. You’re overqualified to be you. And so tapping into that is more like, rather, you not tapping into that is more reflection of your fear of showing up as yourself then it is a reflection of you not being able to do so. And so somebody else can go in there and be like, no. I totally get you. I got it. and you’ve shown up as yourself to them — Mhmm. — or at least they’ve been able to pull it out of you, and then they can take that and do it for you. trying to kinda circumvent that fear. And that is a okay. Yeah. Oh, I love that. So good. So good.

Laura Kåmark [00:33:31]:

I would switch gears a little bit and talk a little bit about the tech behind your business as a website and tech expert. I love hearing about other people’s tech stack. What can you talk to me a little bit even if it’s just like the journey of the tech that you’ve used over the years?

Shauna Van Mourik [00:33:49]:

So tech tech Gremlins — Yeah. — they love me. Bakes up. They cling to everything I do. Mhmm. I recently had to pay someone to untangle my emails and domains because I it was like I put them all into a box with chains connected and I shook them up. because they were a mess. So me and tech, we’re not the best of friends, but, I mean, it’s alright. So I guess I guess I have to ask you, by tech.

Laura Kåmark [00:34:19]:

Okay. What are my u what tools am I using? Yeah. Like, let’s talk about your website. where do you have a platform that you host your website on? Like WordPress, Wix, Squarespace?

Shauna Van Mourik [00:34:30]:

I started with Wix. I recently left Wix for a more comprehensive platform in Kajabi because I wanted to make sure all my marketing was in one place, my CRM, everything. I currently just have a landing page up on Kajabi that people can go and and you can do it now. It’s charlie.com. It’ll take you to this landing page, and you can sign up. You put your first name, your last name, and your email, and you get contact emails from me. Awesome. Great. I’ll tell you my life story. And then but but when we’re getting it set up and I’m working with a graphic designer right now who’s We need to just kinda, like, fit in some of the pretty stuff in there. It will all like, the entire website will be on Kajabi. I like it so far. It’s easy. Kinda plug and play.

Laura Kåmark [00:35:18]:

That’s more or less. Yeah. Kajabi — — parts. such a great platform for doing, like, kind of that all in one. Absolutely. It’s funny that you talk about, like, the tech gremlins. My husband, we we say has a technological black cloud that follows him around.

Laura Kåmark [00:35:34]:

Yeah. There’s time where he will like, something will be being weird on my computer, and he sitting next to me. I’m like, could you just go and, like, walk over there? And I asked him to leave the room, and then everything works better. Like, he can’t wear watches. like like like a real watch. We don’t we don’t have any Apple watches in our house. But, like, a watch, as a kid, he could never wear a watch because they would break. There’s, like, an energy that he puts off the breaks heck. It’s it’s a thing. It’s real. Like — I love that. That is the coolest thing. That is actually like, I mean, it obviously is inconvenient, but it’s funny. It’s meet. And and it could be true. You never know. Like, we all have, like, magnetic fields and stuff like that. Who knows?

Shauna Van Mourik [00:36:12]:

I think I’m just the problem. I always sing the Taylor Swift song whenever I talk about the tech. I’m always like, I’m the problem. It’s me because I just clicked the wrong thing, and then everything goes, and it’s done.

Laura Kåmark [00:36:25]:

Oh, I love that. So are you using kajabi for your emails sending

Shauna Van Mourik [00:36:30]:

as well? Yep. Yeah. I am. I’m I’m learning the ropes because I’ve only been at it for about well, like, 2 or 3 months. now. I was using mailer, like, before for my emails, and it was working great. I really like mailer light. So if anybody’s looking into, like, oh, what can I do for free mailer light? Free works really well when you’re beginning. You’re starting to start do your email marketing, but I like I like Kajabi’s integrations within itself. Like, I think it’s really good. I’m also starting a podcast, so it’s helpful because Kajabi can host the the the podcast stuff in there as well, and I’m learning the tech ropes of Kajabi. But, I mean, it’s got what else does it have? course hosting. So I do offer a pretty extensive program, and within the program, there is a course as well. So having all of these things functioning in the same space is really helpful to me. Can we talk a little bit about that program? Tell me more about your plan.

Shauna Van Mourik [00:37:49]:

I can absolutely I’m excited about this program. It is essentially I’ve been doing this program for 5 years now, but this iteration of the program is like the last iteration, but, like, I’m steroids. Like, I pumped it up, and so it’s it’s amazing. It’s called the marketing confidence client attraction system. where we really go through and we develop your marketing plan and your strategy, what are you gonna be doing, and we right away. It’s messy action. You’re showing up. You’re getting visible. You’re getting data and analytics right away. Then we’re hunkering down on your brand messaging. how you’re showing like, how you’re showing up in your words and how you’re making describing your transformation and telling the people that they are the ones that should be talking to you. Like, how are you getting them to raise their hands and be like, oh, that’s me. What do I need to think? Right? Brand messaging really important. We’re also looking at how are you structuring your content as you’re showing up to make sure that you’re engaging people. You’re getting them compelled to take action and starting the conversation. We’re then also looking at things like your website, your social media profiles, your lead magnets, all of your marketing assets. In fact, this part of the program, I love the name of. It’s called market your assets off because that’s what we do. It’s one of my favorites because it just shows my little bit of a cheeky side where I’m like, yeah. Let’s do the thing. And that’s where we really integrate everything. We make sure that your your pipeline is moving cohesively. And when people consume your content on Facebook or Instagram, they are automatically drawn into your world, whether that looks like into your podcast, into your blog, onto your website, wherever that looks like, and then from there, of course, onto your email list onto your your sales funnel, essentially. And then the the last bit is where we’re taking all the data and analytics that we will have gotten through at the entire program, and I’m teaching you how to do regular reviews. how to figure out what’s working and what’s not, what to look at, and how to structure this and integrate this into your recurring plan so that your marketing plan and your system grows as you scale. And this is a a 6 month program intensive. You’re here to do the work. You’re ready to take messy action. We’re not having anybody sit in other hands for this program. but it is very impactful, and it will help you to break through that ceiling, that that plateau that has been holding you back. It’s very much meant to take you from stuck and stagnant to streamline success.

Laura Kåmark [00:40:22]:

Oh, I love that. That sounds so amazing.

Shauna Van Mourik [00:40:26]:

it’s actually a riot. Like, it’s it’s so fun to do on my end. I know that the people who go through it, they’re always saying that they’re having fun closer to the because it is it’s it’s work. Guys, we’re in business. It’s work. I get you to do the stuff. I’m doing it alongside. I have one of my clients give me one of my favorite testimonials, which tells you, you know, I do it with you. I’m here with you. I’m in the trenches the trenches with you. I don’t just give you information and watch your flounder. That is not my model. I’m a person. You’re a person we do this together, and we get it done.

Laura Kåmark [00:40:58]:

I love that. I love high touch. It’s my favorite way to work with people.

Shauna Van Mourik [00:41:04]:

Literally back pocket access. Like, I am there, and it’s it’s beautiful. It’s truly beautiful. Oh, I love that.

Laura Kåmark [00:41:11]:

Shauna, I have had so much fun chatting with you today. I don’t know where the time went. Like, this just flew by. Oh my goodness. I have one question that I asked. Everyone who comes on the show, and that is what is one piece of advice you would give to someone that would help them be bolder, be louder, and make waves in business.

Shauna Van Mourik [00:41:33]:

That’s beautiful. And I love that you say make waves because I often tell people don’t just make ripples, make waves. Okay. One piece of advice. Fly your freak flag. honest honest to goodness. Fly your free flag. There are people out there who have the same or similar free clay just folded up and tucked into what’s wore somewhere that they’re just kinda like afraid to take out and they’re like, It’s really intense. They love it, and they take it out, and they’re like, oh, this is messy. But then if somebody comes in the room, they’re hiding it. But they’re just waiting. They are waiting with baited breath. for you to just fly that damn flag, and they can go, I want to do that too. And you could light the world on fire just by taking one brave step and flying your free play.

Laura Kåmark [00:42:19]:

Oh my gosh. I love that so much. I think that was such incredible advice. Shauna, I have so enjoyed getting to know you better. I love the passion that you bring to the energy you brought to this interview was so amazing. Can you tell our listeners where they can come find you, where they can hang out with you, all the things?

Shauna Van Mourik [00:42:39]:

Yeah. Actually, you can absolutely find me at www.shaunaleigh.com. That’s where you can sign up for my email newsletter, but you can also find me on social media under my name. I have a Facebook community If you sign up for the email though at www.shaunaleigh.com, you will get the information about the community, so that’s probably the best place to go. So www.shaunaleigh.com.

Laura Kåmark [00:43:03]:

Perfect. And I will link that up in the show notes. Shauna, thank you so much for coming on the show today. This was such a fun conversation.

Shauna Van Mourik [00:43:11]:

I had a full blast, and I’m excited to keep it going.

Laura Kåmark [00:43:16]:

Thanks so much for listening to this week’s episode. Be sure to check out the show notes at laurakamark.com/podcast. And if you’re ready, to turn your website into a marketing machine, get more sales, save time, and simplify the back end of your business, grab my free resource, power integrations for your website. Head on over to laurakamark.com/power. If you enjoyed today’s episode, make sure scratch, and also I’ll just lovey forever if you leave me a review. It helps get this podcast in front of other people can help inspire. Thanks so much for listening. I’ll see you next week. Bye now.