Ep. 56: Planning for the Unexpected with Trust and Estates Attorney Jennifer McNeil Lozano, Esq

November 15, 2023
Jennifer McNeil Lozano, a woman with long blonde hair, is captured smiling for the camera.

Meet Jennifer

Jennifer McNeil-Lozano, Esq., is the founder of McNeil Lozano Law, PC, and practices in the areas of estate planning, probate and trust administration, and general business advice and consultation.

Jennifer earned her Juris Doctorate degree from Loyola Law School, Los Angeles in 2008. During her law school career, Jennifer worked full-time in Legal Affairs at Twentieth Century Fox Film, drafting contracts for cast, stunt, puppeteers, dancers, and post-production players.

After the birth of her first son, she launched her own law practice. In 2012, she founded McNeil Lozano Law, specializing in estate planning, providing peace of mind to other growing families. Her practice has expanded to representing clients in the creative space, high net worth families and business owners.

Jennifer is an active member of the Beverly Hills Bar Association, serving on the Executive Committee of its Trusts and Estates Section. She is also a member of Wealth Counsel and the Conejo Valley Estate Planning Council.

When not serving her clients, Jennifer devotes her time to her husband and two sons. She regularly volunteers at her sons schools, cheering them on the soccer field, enjoying the beach, and live music.

Links & Resources

If you love your work and NOT your website and are ready to grow and scale your business go to laurakamark.com to find out how I can help bring your vision to life.
Full Episode Transcript

Laura Kåmark [00:00:01]:

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Be Bold Make Waves podcast, a show bringing you inspiring stories of women who are growing and scaling their business. I’m your host, Laura Kåmark, a website and tech integration specialist who works with online business donors who love their work and not their website. Join me as we have incredible conversations about business, mindset, productivity, and, of course, the website and tech behind the business. Let’s go ahead and dive in to this week’s episode. Hello, and welcome to this week’s show. For those of you who don’t already know me, I’m Laura Kåmark, website and tech integration specialist for women who love their work, but not their tech. I’m so incredibly excited to introduce our guest today, Jennifer McNeil Lozano Esquire.

Laura Kåmark [00:00:52]:

Jennifer is the founder of McNeil Lozano Law, PC, and practices in the areas of estate planning, probate, and trust administration and general business advice and consultation. Jennifer earned her Juris doctorate degree from Loyola Law School, Los Angeles in 2008. During her law school career, Jennifer worked full time in legal affairs at 20th Century Fox Film, drafting contracts for cast, stunt, puppeteers, dancers, and postproduction players. After the birth of her 1st son, she launched her own law practice. In 2012, she founded McNeil Lozano Law specializing in estate planning, providing peace of mind to other growing families. Her practice has expanded to representing clients in the creative space, high net worth families, and business owners. So, Jennifer, I am so incredibly excited to invite you onto the podcast. I this is So fun for me.

Laura Kåmark [00:01:54]:

So to let our audience know just a little background, Jennifer and I know each other in real life. She’s actually, like, my husband’s, like, Best friend from, gosh, junior high, I think.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:02:06]:

Yes. We were young.

Laura Kåmark [00:02:09]:

So I’m super stoked to have you on the show today. Can you tell our can you tell our listeners a little bit about what it was like when you first went off on your own and started your business?

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:02:23]:

Well, honestly, it was, it was a little frightening because I was in entertainment for so long. Prior to Fox, I was at Sony Music, and I always thought I would be in the entertainment realm, and it becomes part of your identity. And when you leave, You lose a little bit of that and also becoming a new mother. You are trying to, you know, find yourself again. So, and I never really had anyone to kind of be a mentor, if you will, and, like, show me a path. So I was finding my own way, at that point when I I literally left when my son was 4 months old And, and just, you know, went for it. It was just 1 foot in front of another. And, I mean, it started very organically where I was naturally doing entertainment before.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:03:17]:

So I was like, okay. I’ll take on some entertainment clients, and I kind of explored different areas of law. And, and after a few years, I realized that I wanted to try estate planning. I was around a lot of young families who, for the first time, were thinking responsibly, like, God forbid something happens, you know, what my kids. And I did that for a friend, and I kinda took off from there.

Laura Kåmark [00:03:41]:

I love that. So we’re gonna talk a lot about that today because I will tell you, and I don’t know if you know this, but My husband and I do not have a will, and so I wanna I wanna kinda take a

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:03:55]:

look at it. Talk to you guys about that.

Laura Kåmark [00:03:57]:

I’m just advantage of You being on the show today and asked you a whole bunch of questions about this, and so our audience who might also be in the same position as I am. So with if it’s okay with you, I’m just gonna kinda dive into some of these questions I have for you.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:04:15]:

I’m ready.

Laura Kåmark [00:04:17]:

Okay. So In my personal situation, like, we don’t own a home. We rent. So for me, it was always kinda like, I don’t what do we need a will for? Then we had children. I’m like, Oh, I’m pretty sure we need to have a will just in case something were to happen. Can you kinda speak on this at all, like, your thoughts on this?

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:04:38]:

Yes. Well, you know, that kind of dives right into the difference between a will and a trust. Because when I advise people, a will For you, for example, the most important part of the will is that in your will, you nominate guardians for your children. Okay. And that is that’s the most important part. But when you have a but because of the fact that you have minors And they have many years until they’re gonna be an adult. God forbid something happens to you, you don’t want anything trans or nothing can transfer to them until they’re an adult. So one oftentimes, I’ll tell if you don’t have real if you have real property or you have minor children, I definitely recommend a trust For that reason, because of trust, you’re able to design and hold those assets for them until certain ages that you want them to have those distributions.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:05:27]:

And that is the difference between a will and a trust. If you had a will, yes, you’re able to nominate who you want to be your representative if you should pass. You’re able to say where you want your assets to flow. You’re able to nominate guardians for your kids, but that will has to be probated. So these needs to be lodged with the court, and then there would be a probate, which is basically a court supervised process Where the court ensures that your wishes as drafted in that will, comes to pass. But in California, Unfortunately, our probate process is very lengthy and very costly. So when you talk about cost, it’s a statutory basis. It’s a, like, a sliding scale, but it goes by your gross estate.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:06:13]:

So a lot of times people say, oh, well, you know, I have this mortgage on this Property, it’s 800,000 even though the property is maybe 1,000,000, for example. Your statutory fees go off of the gross. It doesn’t matter about the loans. And so that’s another reason why it’s nice to have the trust where you are able to specifically say how the Administrator. Because the administrator and the attorney gets paid on a probated will, for example. But, yeah, that goes into The whole other conversation regarding a trust, where a trust is more, private. You’re able to, 1st of all, nominate who you want to be your trustee, who would step into your shoes. You’d be able to similarly, like you will, state how you want your assets to flow, but you’re also able to plan for incapacity.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:07:01]:

So you’d be able to bypass any Any need for any potential conservatorship. So anytime that you become incapacitated, disabled, unable to manage your assets, your trustee would step into your shoes and and be able to do that for you. And your trust does not get lodged with the court. It’s a private matter. So, that’s 1 one issue when we talk about privacy or public, the public nature. Anything that’s lodged with the court is public record. So if you lodge your will with the court, anybody would ultimately be able to see, You know, how who who the beneficiaries are, potentially target them, you know, unscrupulous people. And, Unfortunately, a lot of them tend to get a lot of spam mail and phone calls and the like.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:07:51]:

And that’s why even I have clients to as we’re going through a probate process, they’ll contact me and that they realize the importance and wanna get their estate planning kinda put together.

Laura Kåmark [00:08:01]:

Okay. That was a lot of information.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:08:03]:

I know. That’s how I am. I I can see it in your eyes. But, yeah, you Okay. As you dissect it, then ask me questions. I’ll let you go. Okay. Go.

Laura Kåmark [00:08:15]:

So in terms of How does this kinda vary from state to state? Is what are the things that kind of are are there certain I guess, let me rephrase this. Are there certain things that across, like, in the United States, across all states where it’s kind of the same, or is it every state has their sort of different things going on?

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:08:33]:

Okay. So the trust is federal law. Yes. It’s it’s federally, usually, acknowledged in every state. I draft language that You wanna ensure that they’re, that all of your documents are able to be, effective in any state. However, there’s always situses. Cite us meaning, the which law you’re choosing as the law of your documents. However, all the ancillary documents, when I talk about ancillary documents.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:08:59]:

When I talk about foundational plan, your trust, I usually say, is, like, the meet you know, the, the core, and And then you have your ancillary documents that support it, like your will, your power of attorney, all of those other documents through advanced health care directive. Every state has different requirements. For example, some like, on your will in California, all is not notarized. It’s actually you need 2 disinterested witnesses. In some states, it actually requires a notary. And if it’s not properly. If it doesn’t go by the proper requirements of each state, then it’s not a valid will. So that’s why anytime a client actually moves to another state, I just want another attorney in that state to just look over the documents and make sure that maybe they need to update their ancillary documents, but their trust usually would remain.

Laura Kåmark [00:09:48]:

Oh, that’s fascinating. So because I am married, my husband and I, is there anything that he like, Like, California is a community property state. I know that. I don’t necessarily know exactly what’s what that means. I just know that it’s a community property state. But in terms of, like, if we don’t have anything in place because he’s my husband, is there some stuff that automatically goes to him because it’s community property? Or

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:10:17]:

Well, when you don’t have anything in place, I always say that there’s 3 types of plans. There’s no plan, there’s a will based plan, and a trust based plan. And having no plan like you have right now means that everything would go by intestacy. Okay? And intestacy is pursuant to the probate code. So you’d look to the probate code. California created created the probate code to ultimately guide who who has a, a, you know, Excuse me. Who has the right to be your be appointed as your administrator of your state? Who has the, The right to potentially be a guardian who who your assets would flow to. So when you’re married, yes, all of your assets when you talk about community property, That means that anything that’s marital property between you and Stefan, half is your, half is yours, and half is Stefan’s.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:11:07]:

So, theoretically, you could Gift your half to someone, but you couldn’t gift more than that because half is Stephan’s. Then there’s also separate property, and separate property being anything that you potentially started. Maybe you had a business or you had assets Prior to marriage, as long as you don’t commingle them and it’s clear that those are separate property assets and you don’t transfer transmute them by commingling them by, like, You know, paying mortgage or buying a property together or having a car, you have to make sure that you strategize and plan for those assets to Stay separate for them to remain separate. And so wait. Go back to What was the question?

Laura Kåmark [00:11:54]:

Community property if since we have currently nothing in place, which will be changing. But, So so you wanna working, like, 30 minutes into this call. I know I need to make some changes. I knew that before we got on the call.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:12:08]:

And, especially, when you don’t want you wanna ensure if there’s certain people that you don’t want to inherit, because intestacy law Ultimately has that hierarchy. Ultimately, because the fact that both of you are married and you have 2 kids, It would initially go to each other. And because you have shared children and you don’t have any prior children, it would then flow to your kids. If both you, both both you guys I mean, you know, where’s the wood? If something happened to your old family, like you’re on a trip or something like that, where it would flow then goes to both of your parents. And that’s one consideration where you would want to, like, plan because maybe you don’t want to go in that in that direction. So, Yeah. That’s a conversation.

Laura Kåmark [00:13:00]:

That is a conversation. Oh my goodness. Okay. So this is a lot. So Let’s we’re gonna dial it back.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:13:06]:


Laura Kåmark [00:13:09]:

Because this is it’s all fascinating. I mean, what would you say when clients come to you? Are you, like, from, like, a percentage place? Are people mostly in the we have no plan, or we have a will, or we have like, where do people normally come When’s a good time for someone to come to you?

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:13:27]:

Well, you know, I think it’s half and half. I have a lot of people that, yeah, Don’t have anything in place. And a lot of times people come to me after they’ve dealt with a situation. As as I said, like my client who’s going through a probate, and they see how how much of the time and, stress it causes to the to the family, and they wanna get their Things in order. And sadly, because of COVID, it’s really brought home the planning aspects for a lot of people, and they’ve come to me. The other half is, oh, and and to to the question about when, oftentimes, When you’re purchasing a new home, you know, my my realtor colleagues will be like, you don’t have you can’t have this just in your in your name alone. This would open it up to a probate, because, you know, a lot of times, you can actually for example, you guys don’t own a property right now. You have accounts.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:14:21]:

You could potentially just put each other as the beneficiary on the account and and then put someone else as contingent. But, similarly, you probably want your children to be contingent and no asset can flow to them. So if you happen to do something like that, it’s not proper planning Because, ultimately, someone would still have to petition the court and get a guardian of an estate established for your children in addition to a guardian of their person. It’s like 2 different petitions, and you can see the complexities that are involved. If you had a trust where everything just flowed to a trust and whoever you nominated, potentially One of your parents, for example, as the trustee, they would be able to manage the whole thing outside of the court system and kinda create a little bit more peace within the family. And the other half are people who have had a plan in place. And because of tax law changes or, you know, changes in their family or changes in their asset situation, they need to kinda revisit it. I always say it’s not like a one and done thing because I always say plan for now.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:15:22]:

You You know, these people are like, well, I don’t know. This is gonna change. I mean, people come back and they’ll amend because maybe someone passed away that they nominated as a fiduciary or that they don’t want to, sadly, gift to one of their beneficiaries anymore because that relationship has dissolved in one way or another or actually changing distributions. Okay? Like, for your example, for your girls, sometimes people would have, like, distributions that, like ultimately, you can always have, you know, discretionary distributions. Whoever you nominate as your trustee can ultimately pay if they have health issues or, like, for education and those kind of things. But if you want them to have a right of withdrawal, People will do, like, 30, 35, and 40, for example. Those are kind of a common age range that people people say that they like. People go out and come back and, you know, as the kids get older, then, like, make it 40, 45, or 50.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:16:21]:

Or they say, no. I just want it to be outright. I don’t want to, you know, rule from the grave, if you will.

Laura Kåmark [00:16:27]:


Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:16:29]:

So, yeah, it it it varies And it it depends. And the thing is is that it’s it’s always whenever there’s a change, a change in your family, a change in your life. I mean, a lot of times also, Whatever plan you guys put in place while your kids are young, you’ll probably change once they’re an adult because you probably wanna put them as your fiduciaries, people who would make decisions for you. Or when you have grandchildren, maybe you also wanna provide for the grandchildren, and you just wanna you know, everything. When life changes, so does your plan. I always say it lives and breathes with you. It’s an extension of you. I love that.

Laura Kåmark [00:17:05]:

Oh my goodness, Jen. This is, like, so informative.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:17:10]:

It’s a lot. I know. See, for me, I’m, like, living and breathing it all the time. So, yeah, please slow me down if I’m

Laura Kåmark [00:17:16]:

getting No. You’re doing I love this. This is great. It’s so helpful. It’s so I mean, honestly, like, I know it’s been one of those things that’s been on the list. Let’s see. We got married eight and a half years ago, so it’s been on the list for about eight and a half year. I knew that we needed to do actually, it probably happened around the time I found out I was pregnant, but which was, you know, 8 years.

Laura Kåmark [00:17:40]:

Just a month after that wedding. So it’s something that I know we’ve been meaning to do, and I know I’m not the only one. I have Plenty of friends that I’ve talked to, and they also it’s like something, like, kinda, I know I need to do something about it. Maybe they don’t know who to go to. Maybe they don’t know what questions to ask. You know, I know when we’ve there’s different things we’ve looked for, like, different sorts of professionals, and you don’t always know the right name for what it is that will for who’s gonna help you, if that makes sense.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:18:11]:

Right. Yeah.

Laura Kåmark [00:18:12]:

For planning these sort of things.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:18:14]:

Yeah. I mean, I have oftentimes, yeah, people come with the problem, and then that’s where I figure out what it is that you need. Like, why are you coming to me? What it what’s your concern? And then you figure out, like, okay. And I think this would be appropriate. I mean, there are certain clients that a trust based plan is not appropriate for them. I mean, they don’t they’re not married. They don’t have any kids. And, yeah, they don’t own any braille property, And they have all of these accounts.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:18:38]:

So, theoretically, you can do a will that kinda covers everything, and you just do the beneficiaries. So Or they come to me wondering how to protect something later, and maybe you need a postnuptial agreement or, you know, there or it’s, You know, as we were talking before about, like, entities

Laura Kåmark [00:18:56]:


Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:18:57]:

And actually transferring those entities and just making the connection to the right adviser for them.

Laura Kåmark [00:19:02]:

Oh, and I’m gonna ask you that question here that I’d asked you before we, went live on the call because I I really liked your answer too because it wasn’t something that I knew the answer to. And my question was to see like, are you the person I would talk to about? Is it does it make sense for me to become an LLC See, you’re an s corp or anything like that because I currently am a sole prop.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:19:22]:

Right. And I said, you need to talk to your CPA, so we need to get you a good CPA. You need to talk to your CPA because they need to examine your tax return and see what kind of income you’re generating, what kind of expenses and see if it makes sense for you to, to go that route. I mean, like, I’m an s corp, And it makes sense for me, and I think for you it might be, but it’s it’s it’s definitely a bigger picture to examine everything and and make the decision. And, also, it depends upon what kind of business you are. Because, you know, if you if you were gonna be an LLC, for example, and you were, You know, gonna be selling some of your shares. I mean, it depends upon what kind of business and kind of structure and what’s your what’s your, A real trajectory in the next you know, in the future. And I

Laura Kåmark [00:20:11]:

love that because we actually we have a new CPA we’re gonna start working with this next year. Good. So I’m excited. It’s I’m it’s helpful for me to know that’s one of the questions I need to add to my

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:20:20]:

I always need good c k’s to send me that one.

Laura Kåmark [00:20:24]:

I will. I’ll send you that. Okay. I wanna go back and talk a little bit more about your journey because this time just flew by. As I knew it would because I could talk to you all day long, but I wanna talk a little bit more about your business and what your journey has been like. You’ve been juggling raising a family, raising 2 very active boys, your husband. You guys had some moving recently going on, bouncing around, and you’re now closer to us, which I love.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:20:53]:


Laura Kåmark [00:20:54]:

Can we just talk like has your business always looked like it does today? I know you mentioned that, like, where you figured out that this was the type of law you wanted to do. How how has your business kinda grown and changed since you made that decision?

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:21:07]:

I think definitely once I decided on a niche. It really helped helped it blossom, because you can kind of, like, hone in on the education of what it is that you need to, focus on and also how you’re marketing yourself. Mhmm. The the certain context and referral sources that are gonna be best for you. I mean, this kind of goes along any business, you know, really of just honing in and, and no. I mean, my business has Has grown to a point where, yeah, my husband now works, works for my firm. He’s a COO, and, and we have I have another associate. I have a paralegal.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:21:47]:

I recently have a general, excuse me, a Counsel, to do more business and, and potentially any sort of pre litigation mediation type services, so so we’re growing. And, and it’s just definitely something where you just stay consistent And also courageous because I think that as you go on I mean, in the it early on when I decided on the ish, I was very much estate planning because it was around young families. And then it was just learning some of these other areas like probate and trust administration. I think when I started Learning about trust administration, it really helped my estate planning because you learn about the backside of once actually someone passes away and what’s important and what could be missed. And, and it kind of just has bolstered, I think, in terms of confidence in what you do and what value you bring to your clients, And I think that, you know, translates when you’re servicing them.

Laura Kåmark [00:22:50]:

Yeah. Absolutely. Would you say that you’ve had some what would you say is, like, a big challenge that you faced in your business? Maybe some mindset challenges that you’ve had to overcome to get where you are today?

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:23:04]:

I think, you know, it might sound weird, but getting out of the matrix of what they of what you might think, what it needs to look like Mhmm. And creating my own way of doing business And what my days can look like and that the freedom that comes with that. And and what a big part of that is scheduling, Block scheduling. I really fought that for a really long time, and I find that block scheduling opens up my day in new ways. I can create the day how I want to and still have a very productive day and have, and be responsive to my clients. And it doesn’t have there are no hard and fast rules. That’s one thing. You know? It’s not like you have to work 9 to 5 or, you know, you shouldn’t work on in the evenings or whatever.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:23:53]:

It’s like whatever works for you and your family, And it’s about keeping, you know, just being true to myself in in in every moment and what I might need and creating some of those practices. You know, in addition to the scheduling, I mean, you gotta take care of yourself. Whatever makes you happy, and also the journaling, meditation, and constant learning. And I think when I do that, I feel good, and I’m able to provide the best service. If you start Releasing or you’re getting lazy on some of those things, it it comes it comes through.

Laura Kåmark [00:24:34]:


Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:24:35]:

And then you’re able to be the best for your kids and your spouse and your family, everybody. So

Laura Kåmark [00:24:41]:

Yeah. I feel like I just finally hit a place in life this, like I mean, really just this last, like, 6 months where the kids are finally at the point, like, they just both started. Like, they’re both in elementary school now, And I finally I mean, that’s really new. But even before that, I’ve just so much of the last 7 years has been, like, in service of the children and making sure, like, they’re taken care of and Everything’s handled and just being constantly go go go, and I wasn’t able to find a lot of pockets of time to, like, take myself, go hiking. Like, on my vision board this year, I literally put a hiking trail. I’m like, I just wanna be outside and go hiking. And it was interesting too because I was like, oh, I finally am gonna have Time once they they’re both in school, I can go join a gym. And I got in touch with all these different gyms and was trying to, like, find something.

Laura Kåmark [00:25:29]:

I’m like, none of this felt right. And then I realized, I don’t want to go to the gym. I wanna go outside and be with my dog and go hiking or go for or just started running again. We were talking about this before we hit record. I just you know, you see it on my stories. I started running with the dog because I just wanna be outside. You know, we’re in Southern California. The weather’s amazing, like, You know, 99% of the time, I just wanna be outside.

Laura Kåmark [00:25:53]:

I don’t wanna be inside a gym, and that’s okay.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:25:56]:

Right. Yes. No. It’s it’s Actually enjoying all those little moments and being present in those moments to enjoy them, and I think that, you know, sometimes I think a big challenge is I was saying social media. Like, I really feel like you can just get sucked in and, and really having setting those boundaries. Setting those boundaries with yourself, setting those boundaries with people around you, and setting those boundaries even with your clients too. They can get really demanding as well. And knowing that, Once you set the boundaries, you don’t have to feel guilty about anything with anybody.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:26:29]:

So, that’s been really helpful too.

Laura Kåmark [00:26:33]:

I’ve gotten really good over the years with setting boundaries with clients. It was something that I didn’t realize I was really good at, but I think it’s because I had so many limitations with the kids being home so much, especially During lockdown and all those things where I had, like, retainer clients at that time where I was like, these are the days I’m able to work on your stuff. Sometimes I’m up At 4 AM, that doesn’t mean I’m always available at 4 AM. They they just I had 1 client. She’s like, I know if you’re emailing me at 4, it means your child woke you up and you weren’t able to get back to sleep.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:27:01]:

You’re like, yes. So don’t talk to me.

Laura Kåmark [00:27:04]:

She just mentioned it later, but she’s like, oh, your daughter must have woken you up. I’m like, yeah. She did. But, yeah, it’s been really interesting, just seeing how putting strong boundaries in place with clients has made it I have some of the most amazing clients ever. And they’re so respectful of my boundaries, and it’s something that I didn’t realize I was really good at Until I was talking with other people who weren’t maybe not as strong with their boundaries with clients, and it was really interesting to me. I’m like, what do you mean they’re Texting you. No one texts me. I don’t they don’t they don’t have my number.

Laura Kåmark [00:27:40]:

I’m curious

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:27:41]:

if you set them out literally At the inception of the of the relationship, or is it from your actions that they’re under able to understand your boundaries?

Laura Kåmark [00:27:52]:

I think it’s usually at at inception. I’m pretty good at saying, like, this is how we communicate. This is you know, I typically, no one ever has my phone number. I do have some clients that have some different access to me, and I know I have 1 client. She’s like, sorry. I don’t wanna abuse that. We have this other, channel that we use. I’m like, I actually prefer it because Emailing sometimes takes me a little longer because I there’s, like, all the niceties that go into it, and you have to, like, be extra pleasant.

Laura Kåmark [00:28:17]:

Like, oh, hi. Good morning. How are you? Like, all this stuff that sometimes just it’s Just a quick question. She has a quick question. She sends me through this other channel. I’m like, it’s okay. It doesn’t bother me because I don’t feel that you abuse it. So It doesn’t for whatever reason, I don’t know why she and I have but that’s the relationship we do.

Laura Kåmark [00:28:33]:

I have another client that we’re also really good friends And because a lot of my clients become my really good friends, and we talk daily on Voxer because that’s our communication just on a friend level. But But then if she has something work related, she’s not gonna email me about it. She could hey. Quick question for you. And it’s not a big deal because, again, it doesn’t feel in that sense like It’s over any boundary because that’s our normal form of communication.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:28:56]:

Right. So it’s kinda Yeah. I think that makes it difficult when when you guys become friends when you’re friends with clients. But

Laura Kåmark [00:29:05]:

my clients, we spend, like, a lot of time together because I, You know, I start out with do building, like, a website forum, and then we get okay. Now we’re ready to do more scaling. Let’s put in some back end automations and some Email stuff going on, and then it just it continues to grow, and they keep me we keep the relationship going, which I love because I love working with my clients over and over again and watching their businesses grow.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:29:28]:

Yeah. That’s awesome.

Laura Kåmark [00:29:29]:

Okay. We have had Such a fantastic conversation. I literally we do need to schedule lunch because that’s been on my, to do list also. I have to text you so we can get together for lunch. Now you’re so much closer. It’s true. But I I have 1 question that I ask everyone who comes on the podcast. Yes.

Laura Kåmark [00:29:46]:

And that is what is 1 piece of advice you would give to someone when they are growing and scaling their business to help them be bolder, be louder, and make waves.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:29:57]:

Oh, that’s a good one. I would say, constantly learning, constantly growing, and constantly being courageous. And, yeah. I mean, as long as you do that, you’re you’re moving forward. And I think that’s the biggest thing. You know? We’re dealing with such heaviness in the world right now, and that through it, You can still move forward, and you’re gonna look back and see that you’re just an extraordinary An extraordinary place by, by being courageous and continuing to grow, and don’t let anything stop you, really.

Laura Kåmark [00:30:37]:

I love that so much. Jennifer, thank you so much for coming on the show today. Can you tell our listeners where they can come find you, hang out with you, if They’re in California where they can come talk to you.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:30:49]:

Yes. Well, thank you so much for having me. It’s, like, so weird to be talking to you over this format, but it’s Cool. Yes. They can find me at mcneilozonalaw.com. You know, give me a give me a call. If you have any questions, you can also email me. Happy to Answer any questions.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:31:05]:

Jennifer atmcneilozanolaw.com.

Laura Kåmark [00:31:13]:

Wonderful. I will link all that up in the show notes. Thank you so much. This was so much fun.

Jennifer McNeil Lozano [00:31:17]:


Laura Kåmark [00:31:19]:

you. Thanks so much for listening to this week’s episode. Be sure to check out the show notes at laurakamark.com/podcast. And if you’re ready to turn your website into a marketing machine, Get more sales, save time, and simplify the back end of your business? Grab my free resource, Power Integrations for your website. Head on over to laurakamark.com/power. If you enjoyed today’s episode, make sure to subscribe. And, also, I’ll just Love you forever if you leave me a review. It helps get this podcast in front of other people that can help inspire.

Laura Kåmark [00:31:56]:

Thanks so much for listening. I’ll see you next week. Bye now.

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hey, i’m laura

I’m a web designer and tech integrator for female business owners who love their work but NOT their website. When you have big visions for your business I help bring them to life. 

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