Laura Kåmark [00:00:01]:
Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Be Bold Make Waves podcast, a show bringing you inspiring stories of women who are growing and scaling their business. I’m your host, Laura Kåmark, a website and tech integration specialist who works with online business donors who love their work and not their website. Join me as we have incredible conversations about business, mindset, productivity, and, of course, the website and tech behind the business. Let’s go ahead and dive in to this week’s episode. Hello, and welcome to this week’s show. For those of you who don’t already know me, I’m Laura Kåmark, website and tech integration specialist for women who love their work, but not their tech. I’m really excited to introduce you to my guest today.
Laura Kåmark [00:00:48]:
Former journalist turned PR Strategist, Dina Berman, works with entrepreneurs who want to inspire millions, skyrocket their visibility, and attract more soulmate clients. She helps them stop being the Internet’s best kept secret, become the go to expert, and create a much bigger impact in the world by sharing their story and expertise in the press. She launched her business following a decade working as a journalist during which she was published in virtually every national UK newspaper and many magazines. She’s worked as a publicist for a number of 6 7 figure industry leaders and has also helped hundreds of entrepreneurs learn how to do their own PR. She’s a best selling author and has been featured in Forbes, Entrepreneur, HuffPost, The Guardian, BBC Radio, amongst others. Dina, thank you so much for coming on the show today. I’m so excited to
Dina Behrman [00:01:44]:
be here. Having me. I’m so excited to be here.
Laura Kåmark [00:01:48]:
Can you start off just kind of telling our audience a little bit about how you got to be where you are today?
Dina Behrman [00:01:55]:
Yeah. So, I started my career as a journalist. I always loved, books. Always love stories, and so I guess that that came from that because, essentially, I, throughout my career, have been, I guess, telling people’s Stories in one way or another. And I had a few different staff jobs where I was working In house at different magazines, and then I ended up going freelance. And, When I was freelancing, I quickly realized that I needed to perfect my pitching skills because I was sending out These ideas, features to different editors, and I was just either not getting a response or, you know, like, the thanks, But no thanks. And so I realized, you know, if I wanted to make it as a freelance journalist, I needed to perfect my pitching skills. And so, that’s what I spent some time doing, and I really went through a lot of trial and error to test out what worked and what didn’t and really just, you know, tweak and adapt my pictures, and that’s how I ended up getting featured in I’m based in the UK, so it was in almost every national UK a newspaper.
Dina Behrman [00:03:13]:
And so when I launched my business, I was initially doing it as a side hustle, and then I went full time in my business. And I just Really, wanted to be able to share what I’ve learned on my journey with other business owners because I realized that Not everyone’s ready to hire a PR agency, and I love being able to teach other entrepreneurs How they can pitch the price without going through all that trial and error that I went through, and then how they can use PR to really grow their business.
Laura Kåmark [00:03:45]:
Oh, I love that so much. I love also how you talk about, like, being the best kept secret because I feel like I know so many people in the online space who they’re so good at what they do, but no one knows about it. Can we talk a little bit about how you help people kinda become known when they are the best kept secret.
Dina Behrman [00:04:06]:
Yeah. Well, I I started kind of using that phrase because one of my clients actually said it to me and said that I helped her stop being the best kept secret. And I was like, oh my gosh. That’s exactly, like you know, it just made me realize that’s what I wanna help people to do. So I think, like you say, there’s so many amazing Coaches and consultants and service providers out there, and they know they’re great at what they do. And they have, like, really great case studies and testimonials, But they’re just not reaching enough of the right people. And what I love about PR is that you don’t have to rely on Beating the algorithm. Like, you don’t have to be a social media expert.
Dina Behrman [00:04:50]:
You don’t have to, like, you know, dance on TikTok or Learn how to, like you know, I feel like with Instagram, you always it’s changing all the time, and you have to do the right thing to keep it happy. And And with PR, you don’t have to do any of that. And so what I love about PR is you can leverage other people’s audiences, and I think that’s the magic that you don’t get from other types of marketing so you can go on to a podcast, for example, that has, like, a really Great, loyal audience, and you get to tap into that audience, and you don’t have to spend that time building it yourself. You get to leverage The audience that’s like a ready made audience, and it’s the same if you’re in a magazine or a newspaper or, you know, a blog or whatever it is. You get to Get in front of their audience. And if you do it intentionally and strategically, then you can make sure that the media outlets that you’re appearing in are the ones that your ideal clients are reading and listening to and watching. And so that’s how you can stop being the best kept because you can just get in front of more of the people that you’re here to serve.
Laura Kåmark [00:05:58]:
Oh, I love that so much. And I think that’s so important too. I know I’ve Said for so long, like, one of the things that I try to do for my clients is really put a lot of their marketing on automation in the back end. So, like, emailing their list, Showing up on social, like, I really strongly believe that a lot of that should be just evergreen content so that you can go out and Get on podcasts. Speak at Summit. It’s like go do that relationship building visibility piece that gets you all that attraction that gets you in front of new audiences. And then once you get them in your world, the rest of it is little more automated on the back end, and it’s happening. So you it’s not I I mean, I feel like as entrepreneurs, we’re pulled in so many directions because marketing is never done.
Dina Behrman [00:06:41]:
Laura Kåmark [00:06:42]:
I mean, it’s that piece of entrepreneurship that I know no one ever told me, like, oh, you wanna be an entrepreneur? You’re gonna, like, go become a marketing for no matter what your zone of genius is.
Dina Behrman [00:06:53]:
Yeah. No. A 100%. And I love that you’ve said about having those systems set up so that You can then nurture the people because that’s what I teach my clients to do is that they can, you know, use their major appearances to bring people into their world, to bring them into their ecosystem. And then if they can have something set up so that they’re sending them emails or or whatever is it that they’re nurturing them, then, You know, that’s that’s the job done. You know? They get to build up that know, like, and trust factor really quickly because they’re hearing them being interviewed or they’re reading their article, and then they wanna take that next step. And so if you can have that assess up already, that’s really gonna help.
Laura Kåmark [00:07:38]:
Oh, I love that so much. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. We’re speaking the same language. I love it. You talk at all about I know there’s a lot of people, and I know this was something I struggled with for so long about, like, the mindset around being visible because that can be really, really scary when you’re, like, a solo entrepreneur, and, like, putting yourself out there and all those things. Can you talk about that at all? Do you find that with clients?
Dina Behrman [00:08:05]:
Yeah. Yeah. It’s something that comes up so much, and I think it’s actually one of the biggest things that holds people back from doing PR or even Considering PR, I know that a lot of people I speak to say they haven’t even considered PR as an option, and they think that it’s For other people, a lot of people think you need to already be, really well established. You need to have a really big following, you know, For journalists to be interested in what you have to say and for PR to be an option for you, and it’s not the case at all. I would say if you are Completely new in business and you don’t know who your ideal client is and you don’t know what you’re selling, then maybe don’t focus on PR. Like, wait. But if you’ve been in business to say, you know, at least 6 months or a year, you know who your ideal client is, you have an offer, Then you can really make the most of PR, and you don’t need to have a huge following. You don’t need to be Super well known.
Dina Behrman [00:09:02]:
You don’t need to be, you know, the best person at what you do. What you need is to be able to share Your story and your expertise, and that’s what I focus on as the sort of 2 foundational elements when I’m working with my clients because journalists aren’t just going to promote your business for you For free for the sake of it, like, you have to give them a reason to do it. And so when you share your story, that gives them that human interest angle that journalists are interested in. And then when you share your story with the readers, the listeners, whatever, That helps them to connect with you on a deeper level. So sharing your story is really important and then sharing your expertise as well. So if you can Be quoted as an expert in a magazine or be interviewed as an expert on the radio or whatever it is. Again, that’s Sharing value with that journalist, with that publication. So they’re going to want to feature you, and it positions you as an authority in your space with the people that are listening to it or or reading it.
Laura Kåmark [00:10:14]:
Is there any places that can be, like, a good starting point to kinda find some of those opportunities? I know, like, Years ago, I used to look on, what is it, HARO? Help a reporter out. Is that, like, is that still a good place to go look For that, is there other little tips or tricks that you can share with our audience about where to go?
Dina Behrman [00:10:33]:
So, yeah, Harrower is a good place, because That is a, compilation of different media requests that have come from different journalists. So if you sign up for that, you will get an email, and it can be a little bit overwhelming because they will send this email through or multiple email through, and it’ll be, like, All these different requests for all different subjects from different journalists. So it’s definitely a good thing to keep an eye on. It’s There’s a lot of people using it so that it can be quite competitive. So sometimes you have to reply really quickly, and you have to, like, send your answer through really quickly. But it can be really good because it means then you are being responsive to what the journalists are looking for. So what I recommend is making sure that you are focusing on proactive PR as well as reactive. So the reactive is if you do something like help a reporter out, which is something that you can sign up for and you’ll get all these emails through, then that’s a good way to make sure that you’re covering off that We active PR, but you really wanna be focusing on the proactive PR as well, which is where you are going out there and pitching The media outlets that are going to get you in front of your ideal clients.
Dina Behrman [00:11:52]:
So in terms of a place to start, like, absolutely, if you If you have any of these sort of media request services like Help A Reporter app, that’s a really good way just to get started. And then things like, you know, look for podcasts that you can appear on. Look for opportunities to write guest articles or guest blog posts where you can Write the article yourself and submit it because there’s so many different, media Platforms out there. You can start small if you’ve never done PR before. You can start small and build it up. And so if you’re just wanting to dip your toe in, You can look for a podcast maybe from someone that you’re connected to online and go and do an interview with them or look for a blog or An online magazine from someone in your industry or something like that, and you can you can start out smaller and then build this up And, use that experience that you get from doing those first couple of pieces, and it it doesn’t need to be you You know, it doesn’t mean to say, well, I I’m just gonna do really small podcast for a year and then wait to do the big ones. You only need to do a couple of smaller ones, and then you’re ready to start doing the bigger ones.
Laura Kåmark [00:13:09]:
Yeah. I feel like especially in the beginning, I remember, like, my first ever past interview on someone’s podcast, and it was so scary. And even when I first started the podcast, I I was so nervous at the beginning, and now it’s like, I don’t even if I have Something like that or a summit interview. I don’t get nervous for it at all anymore. I’m like, okay. Let’s just go do this. It’s
Dina Behrman [00:13:27]:
You get so used to it. It’s true. Like, the more you do it. And so sometimes with my clients, they might start off doing, like, say, local press, and so being interviewed on local TV or local radio. And it’s it feels like lower stakes, so it doesn’t feel quite so scary. And then, sometimes one of my clients, she was interviewed on a local news program, and it got picked by BBC Breakfast News, which is a huge national show here in the UK. But because she’d already done the local one, It had given her that kind of experience of doing it, and then it wasn’t so scary to then go and do the bigger one. So, that can be another good way to Start off is actually looking at local and regional press and and getting some experience of doing those interviews or articles or whatever it is.
Laura Kåmark [00:14:13]:
Such great advice. Yeah. Build up that confidence because it does get easier. It’s just Yeah.
Dina Behrman [00:14:19]:
Yeah. Yeah. Definitely.
Laura Kåmark [00:14:21]:
What would you say are some of the, like, tangible results that you can get when you have PR in place?
Dina Behrman [00:14:29]:
So what I like about PR is that there are so many kind of different benefits that you can get from it. And some of them are tangible and some of them aren’t. But I’ve had clients that will see this Direct correlation between the results that they’re getting in their business and the major opportunities that they’ve had. So one of my clients, She wrote a first person essay for an online publication, and she got 1500 new leads off the back of that article. Now that doesn’t happen every time that you’re featured in the press, but but, you know, it’s just to show, like, what’s actually possible. And so I’ve had clients where they have had, people signing up to work with them directly from a particular article. So One of my clients, she was in a regional newspaper. She’s a hypnotherapist.
Dina Behrman [00:15:24]:
And so she had Ten new clients booked in with her from that 1 article, so she could, see that direct correlation between having that article having the clients book in with her. Sometimes it’s slightly less, I guess, tangible because it will be, there’s an article or an interview, and then you get some new followers or new subscribers. And then maybe further down the line, they become clients. So I guess if that’s something that you can kind of track and you can see I know, I had a Facebook group for a while, and I would always ask people when they joined, how did you find me? And, it would always be interesting because I had an article, in Forbes a good few years ago. And even until a couple of months ago, I will have people that will find me via that article, and it’s like you said earlier about having kind of evergreen, things going on. You know, one of the things with PR is that it can be evergreen. People can keep finding you Months or even years later. So sometimes you’re gonna see those, like, immediate results, which is really exciting when you’re like, okay.
Dina Behrman [00:16:41]:
This article came out. I actually had, recently, a lady that heard me on a podcast and said, oh, I heard you being interviewed on this podcast. And she said, I was driving along, and I heard you, and I knew that I needed to work with you, and so then she went on to my website, booked up a call, and and that was it. But it’s not always gonna be that kind of instant. So it’s looking at, Okay. How else can I bring them into my world? And are they gonna join my Facebook group or follow follow on Instagram or join my email list? And then Further down the line, you know, they might become a client. And then there’s also the really intangible things like, Well, when you get featured in the press, it gives you extra credibility. It gives you the know, like, and trust factor.
Dina Behrman [00:17:24]:
It gives you expert positioning. And those things all help. And, you know, if you have someone who’s new to your world, who lands on your website, and they see your as seen in logos, You know, it’s difficult to sort of judge the impact that that has, but we all know that people need to feel that know, like, and trust before they buy from you. So having something like as seen in, as featured in is really gonna help. And so that’s less of a tangible thing, but you you know that it’s helping you.
Laura Kåmark [00:17:55]:
Oh, I love all that. And I think you touched on a really important key there of, like, the importance of asking people how they found us. Yes. When I fill out a form and they say, like, how did you find me? And, usually, it’s optional. I try so hard to fill that out so people know as someone who looks at data And is always wondering, like, how did someone find me? I was asked recently to be to speak at a summit and be on a panel. And I’m like, how when I got on the with her. I’m like, how’d you find me? She’s like, I have no idea.
Dina Behrman [00:18:25]:
So I’m like, okay. I just start seeing you everywhere. That’s the other thing when it’s like, oh, I’ve just seen you everywhere. But no. It’s it’s such an important question to ask because otherwise, sometimes you can do things whether it’s, You know, any kind of marketing and not know if it’s working, and you can feel like if you’re not seeing those instant results, is it actually working? So, yeah, absolutely, you wanna be, asking people how they found you and, yeah, I always find it interesting when it’s like something especially when it’s, You know, from maybe a few months or a few years ago, it just shows that these things keep working for you.
Laura Kåmark [00:19:01]:
I had a client I worked with years ago, and She had one of those forms, and people were finding her from Pinterest of all places, which she wasn’t super active on. And she had, like, a 5 day challenge she did, and so many people came from Pinterest. We were always shocked that at the number of how many people were coming from that avenue. We’re like, Interesting because it wasn’t where we were really active for her. So Yeah.
Dina Behrman [00:19:24]:
Yeah. It just gets to show.
Laura Kåmark [00:19:27]:
Just because we put a lot of energy into some Into, like, a certain platform or a certain strategy doesn’t necessarily mean that, like, it all comes together. You know? Yeah.
Dina Behrman [00:19:36]:
I think that’s the thing. And, like, Say if you start getting, publicity, then you can share that on the other places where you’re doing your marketing. So if you all on Pinterest, and you can start pinning your articles and your interviews. You can share it, obviously, on all your social media channels, and then that gives you Content that you can share. So it all kind of works together.
Laura Kåmark [00:20:00]:
It does. Absolutely. Oh, I love it. Would you say that your business has always looked like it does today, or has it done a lot of evolving over the last few years?
Dina Behrman [00:20:11]:
Yeah. It’s definitely evolved. When I very first started my business, I was doing kind of PR and copywriting services, and I, I I kind of didn’t really know who my either client was, and so I’d end up doing kind of, you know, all kinds of different things and working with all different kinds of different clients that weren’t necessarily ideal clients. And so definitely, I went through that process of learning, you know, who my ideal client is and what my kind of zone of genius is. And so then I It was after I had I’ve got 2 daughters. And after I had my eldest daughter, I, really decided to go all in on my business, and that’s when I really started focusing Just on the PR side of things, and having some clients where I’m doing the PR for them, but also really focusing on helping People to learn how to do their own PR, which, like I say, you know, not everyone is in a position to hire a PR agency or they’re not always Ready to and I think even if you feel like maybe you wanna outsource to a PR agency in the future, it’s really helpful to actually have the understanding of how PR works. So, yeah, when I sort of moved into focusing, solely on my business, I was doing that mix of doing PR for people and helping people with PR. And then a couple Couple years ago, I actually launched a publishing part of my business, and I started focusing on putting together multi author books.
Dina Behrman [00:21:47]:
So books where you have, lots of different entrepreneurs each contributing a chapter on a particular theme. And that worked really well with the PR because you can use the PR to promote the book, and you can use the p The book to land more PR opportunities. And so that was kind of the biggest, I guess, Evolution in my business, and now I’m back to focusing kind of fully on the PR, and the The books are kind of there more in the background, but I think whenever I’m working with clients, it comes down to the same thing, which is helping them to share their stories, Helping them to share their messages, helping them to get you know, put their expertise out there, and Leveraging different platforms to to enable them to do that.
Laura Kåmark [00:22:41]:
Oh, I love that. So are you still how were you Helping people because for the people who aren’t ready for the 1 on 1 service, is there some tips you can give kind of our audience on how they can get started learning how to do their own PR.
Dina Behrman [00:22:57]:
Yeah. I’ve actually got a free PR checklist, which is available to download from my website, and it kind of takes you through the process of, step by step what you need to do to do your own PR. But I think I would say, you know, start with, like, take baby steps And think about what you could do that feels doable because I think a lot of people put it off because it just feels quite overwhelming. And, actually, you can Star, if you wanted to, you could start getting publicity tomorrow. You could submit a guest blog post to an online blogging platform, and you could be published within the next 48 hours. You could Fill out an application form to be on a podcast, and you could get that booked in. You could send a press release to a local Newspaper, especially if you do have anything like you have a book coming out or an event coming out, then a press release to a local Paper is a is a really, valuable thing to have. So I think, just think about what’s one thing that you could do that would move you in the direction of starting to get publicity.
Laura Kåmark [00:24:13]:
Oh, I love that. And we’ll link that checklist up in the show notes as as well. But I think that’s really great advice, and I love how you kinda broke that down too because it does. It can feel very overwhelming. It’s like, you know, on the to do list, you know, start PR strategy.
Dina Behrman [00:24:26]:
Laura Kåmark [00:24:28]:
Well, we’ll just put that on the back burner for a little bit.
Dina Behrman [00:24:31]:
Yeah. So I think as well just knowing that you can kind of, work it into your schedule. You don’t have to do it all at once, and work with what you’re already doing. So if you think about, for example, Some of the content that you already have because as business owners, you know, most of us are continually creating content, or you can repurpose a lot of that. You know, you might have a great Facebook Live video that you could transcribe, and then that’s gonna be an article for you. Or you might have a really great email, excuse me, email newsletter, and you could use that as the basis of A feature or an article. So look at what you already have. Definitely repurpose.
Dina Behrman [00:25:15]:
You don’t always have to be creating new things, and look at what would feel kind of easy and aligned and would fit in. Also, like, would fit in with your personal schedule, your personal circumstances because some people love writing. So then great. You can do guest articles, guest blog posts. If you don’t love writing, maybe you prefer speaking, go and do radio shows or podcast show. So you don’t have to do things that you don’t like or that you don’t have time for. You you really can make it work for you.
Laura Kåmark [00:25:51]:
I love that advice. Yeah. I’m definitely not a writer. I don’t I always tell clients, like, I have great copywriters I can refer you to. I do not do any of the copy for any of my clients. I am definitely a verbal processor, hence why I have the podcast.
Dina Behrman [00:26:06]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I think everyone has, like, you know, There’s certain way that they like to work and what they feel that they excel at. And so you you do get to, like, Choose what feels good to you, what feels aligned, what you enjoy as well. Because if you’re doing PR, you want it it’s fun, and it’s exciting, and you get to Really share your story on these big platforms with large audiences. So you want it to feel exciting. You don’t want it to feel like a chore. So definitely, like, Feel you know, feel into what types of media would actually suit you and feel fun and exciting.
Laura Kåmark [00:26:45]:
Oh, I love that. I wanna switch gears a little bit. And as a web designer and tech integration specialist, I always like to to ask my guests about the website and tech behind their business. So I would love to know, has your website always looked like it has Today, has there been a lot of iterations to it? All tell me all about your website.
Dina Behrman [00:27:06]:
Oh, yeah. There’s been a lot of iterations. It was not very pretty when I first had it. So I’ve always used WordPress, and I find WordPress, just straightforward from someone that’s not necessarily got the techie background. It’s something that I know I can update it myself. So I have got to the point now where, you know, I can update my own sales pages and things like that. But I had someone who built my website for me initially and did a very, very, like, basic, Not very pretty website. And then over the years, it’s definitely, like, evolved and changed.
Dina Behrman [00:27:51]:
And I’ve had people that have helped me out at different points with, you know, designing different sort of sales pages and things for it. So, yeah, WordPress, for the website. And, Yeah. What what else was it? Just about the website. Yeah.
Laura Kåmark [00:28:11]:
I love hearing about that. I’m I’m a word I love WordPress. Yeah. It’s I I’m always curious what other people are using in their experiences with it just because I mean, there’s there’s no there’s no right answer. There’s no wrong answer. It’s just, You know, it’s what works for you. Is there a favorite piece of tech that you use in your business that’s like your like, this is my favorite thing ever, and I I just love it so much.
Dina Behrman [00:28:36]:
I have so I use Vimeo to host My videos for my, I’ve got a PR, course that has Kind of prerecorded trainings on it. So I use Vimeo, and I’ve just discovered on Vimeo that they have an AI transcription generator, which is just amazing because it means that I can, Edit the videos myself through the text rather than having to go into the video and do it, which I always I’m really tricky. So that’s been amazing because you can literally go in and you can delete all of your umms and ahs, And you can delete sections of it based on what you’ve said, and then it also produces a transcript for you. So, if you want to use that, I’m actually I’ve just started writing my own book, on how to do your own PR, so I’m using parts of that transcript because, again, repurposing and not having to write everything from scratch. So I only just realized that Vimeo have this capability, and I’m really, really impressed do that.
Laura Kåmark [00:29:48]:
I did not. I use Vimeo as well. I did not know that there was a new AI transcription. I’m not surprised.
Dina Behrman [00:29:56]:
Okay. One of
Laura Kåmark [00:29:57]:
my favorite little one of a really popular blog post I have actually that I I always see it on my Google Analytics, report that I get in my email, and I gets a ton of traffic, and it’s literally how to send your Zoom call recordings automatically to Vimeo, which for me when I it’s like just like a little setting each
Dina Behrman [00:30:18]:
Yeah. I believe that.
Laura Kåmark [00:30:19]:
In Vimeo. And I’m like, this just saves me so much time because before I was recording podcast episodes, then downloading them off Zoom once they process and then uploading them to Vimeo. And it was just that extra step, and now it just you know, I get the email that The Zoom meeting has is finished processing, and then a little bit right after I get an email from Vimeo saying your video’s been uploaded. I’m like, this is amazing.
Dina Behrman [00:30:41]:
I love that. I love it when the different softwares integrate as well. That’s always nice.
Laura Kåmark [00:30:46]:
Yeah. That’s, like, one of my most favorite thing is, like, finding ways for things to integrate so they can all just work seamlessly on the back end because I’m I’m a 1 woman show. I don’t have a team. I love finding ways to just automate things on the back end for myself, for my clients so that everything’s just, like, smooth and happening, and then we can go do the peace we love in our business.
Dina Behrman [00:31:06]:
Yeah. Yeah. I’m with you on that. Yeah.
Laura Kåmark [00:31:08]:
Oh, I love that. What would you say is one of the biggest challenges that you’ve overcome since start starting your business?
Dina Behrman [00:31:19]:
I think when I first started out in my business, I because I’m a natural introvert, so it never came naturally to me to be kind of promoting myself and talking about my business. And so I think the biggest Challenge for me was actually getting more visible myself, and I had a kind of moment where I realized that, I was helping other people to get visible, and I just wasn’t doing it for myself. And I realized that was actually what was missing from my business. And I think Sometimes, the things that we’re good at or the things that we help our clients with, we, kind of neglect to do it for ourselves. And it was a real just, like, light bulb moment because I was at a point a a point in my business where I was, working with lots of different clients. Like I said, at the start where I didn’t really know who my ideal client was, and, I was very, like, overworked and underpaid, really. I wasn’t charging enough, and I was working with too many people. And, and I realized that I needed to actually do what I was helping my clients to do and Get more visible and put myself out there and really, own my own expert status and Not be scared to put myself out there as an expert, and actually overcoming that from a mindset point of view as much as anything was the biggest game changer for me in my business.
Dina Behrman [00:32:56]:
And when I started intentionally putting myself out there as an expert, getting visible and so At the start of the podcast, you mentioned, the different places that I’ve been featured. When I actually went and got myself featured in those places, That was the biggest change for me for the better in my business, and I, Started to really be seen as an expert in my field. I got hired by different industry leaders. They then referred me to their peers and colleagues, and I ended up getting fully booked as a publicist, really because I’d overcome that fear of being visible because I actually Started to put myself out there. Like I say, it was a mixture of a of a mindset thing of actually seeing myself as an expert, and then on a practical level, Being more visible, putting myself out there, you know, not being scared to sort of share my expertise and maybe to shout about what I was doing a bit, and Getting featured in different publications and things like that and doing all of that, just changed my business completely.
Laura Kåmark [00:34:05]:
Oh, I love that. So at what point when did you when was, like, that turning point for you and your business? Like, how long ago was that when you kinda were like, I’m gonna do this. I’m gonna go get visible. You remember, like, when that
Dina Behrman [00:34:17]:
It it was quite a few years ago now because I’ve run my business, for about 9 years. So it was it was a it was a few years ago, but it was just having that I actually was working with a business coach at the time, and she said, What tools do you have at your disposal that you’re not using? And it was just like, oh Oh my god. Well, I know how to do PR, and I’m not doing it for myself. And and I had all these sort of thoughts in my head of like, no. It’s for other people. It’s not for me. So when I and, you know, over the years on and off, I I sometimes I’m more intentional with even now with with doing publicity, and then sometimes, you know, I get out of the habit, and I’m like, no. I wanna focus on that again.
Dina Behrman [00:35:10]:
And so I’ve you know, I I’m I’m not always perfect, and I don’t do it all the time. But when I do, it makes the biggest difference in my business. And so for the past year or so, I’ve been really focusing intentionally on being featured on different podcasts and writing articles. And I found as well that, being featured on podcast, for example, Often leads to collaborations, and then there are collaboration opportunities that lead to, you know, other opportunities in my business and More clients and things like that. And so I think just being very intentional with it, makes a huge difference. And Every time you put yourself out there, every time you get visible, it’s going to do something positive for your business. And so when I’m working with my clients, and I can’t always tell them what result they’re going to get when they’re featured in the press. One of my clients had A fairly small mention in a newspaper, it was kind of a couple of paragraphs, but it was One of those things where it was just like the right subject, and she got in front of the right people.
Dina Behrman [00:36:20]:
And she had hundreds of new subscribers. She had all these discovery calls being booked from this one sort of dimension, but we can’t ever predict what results you’re gonna get. So I just always tell my clients, If you go out and get this bought, it’s always working in your favor. It’s going to do something positive for you. And so Yeah. For me, just remembering that for myself as much as anything, makes a big difference in my business.
Laura Kåmark [00:36:49]:
Oh, I love that so much. I think it’s it’s hard because we all want that, like, instant gratification. We wanna see results like, okay. I went. I was visible. I was on this podcast where all the people, like, It Yeah. Like, you know, we I have a coach that I’ve worked with for years, and she always has talked about it. It’s just planting seeds.
Dina Behrman [00:37:06]:
Laura Kåmark [00:37:07]:
Grow. Some don’t. Some take longer to grow. Like, you just you go plant the seeds. You nurture the seeds. You just go keep planting seeds, And, eventually, that garden will grow. It just it does not grow overnight. It it takes time, and it’s hard because, again, like, Business like it takes time to get traction.
Dina Behrman [00:37:28]:
Yeah. Yeah. I think there’s a compound effect as well when you put yourself out there. And sometimes it is that thing of, like, you build up that momentum, and you’re doing this interview and this article and this thing and this thing. People start to notice when you’re being seen in lots of different places. It builds up that buzz. It builds up you know, it makes you start to feel excited because you’ve got different things going on, more opportunities come to you. So I think doing PR on a consistent basis, if you do I’ve spoken to people where they’ve done, like, 1 podcast interview or 1 article, and they’re like, oh, well, I did it, and nothing happened, and it didn’t work.
Dina Behrman [00:38:04]:
And that’s never going to bring in results. You definitely you want to keep doing it on a consistent basis because then you’re going to have the opportunities that have, like, the really big exciting results, but, Also, you’re gonna have that compound compound effect of building it up and people starting to see you in different places, and it all becomes this big snowball. You know?
Laura Kåmark [00:38:27]:
Yeah. Absolutely. I know last year, I was spoke at a ton of summits. And, again, it was like one of those things someone had asked me to be on a summit, And then someone else asked me, and then I was referred to another one. And so I was speaking at a lot of summits, and I a bunch of people were like, I just keep seeing you everywhere. I’m like, well, I’m just getting around right I know.
Dina Behrman [00:38:44]:
It’s Yeah. Yeah. People notice as well. It’s it’s you know, it is that thing of, just becoming front of mind in in people’s minds when, there’s so many people that we’re connected to online as well. And so when you do start sharing these different things, whether it’s summits or PR opportunities, publicity. You’re each time, it’s like they’re becoming more familiar with you. They’re seeing your face Again, they’re seeing your name again, and it all works in your favor.
Laura Kåmark [00:39:17]:
Absolutely. So, Dina, I am a Huge fan of celebrating. I love to celebrate my wins with, like, a delicious cheese plate. Is there something that we could celebrate you about you that you’re really proud of yourself that you’ve accomplished in your business.
Dina Behrman [00:39:36]:
Great question. I think I don’t know. Something specific probably would be The books that I’ve published, that I’ve helped other entrepreneurs to become authors, and that I’ve done it myself because I’ve done a couple where I’ve, done chapters for them as well. So I think doing that has been, A really special thing because I’ve helped people to share their stories, you know, in a they get the opportunity to share, Like, a really kind of deep and meaningful part of their life, and I think that’s been really special. And going through that process myself and being able to become A published author myself, has been a really special thing.
Laura Kåmark [00:40:29]:
Oh, I love that. I think that’s a great thing to celebrate. Absolutely. Okay. We are close to our time. I could literally sit and talk to you all day. This is so fun. I do have 1 final question that I ask everyone who comes on the podcast, and that is what is 1 piece of advice you would give to someone when they are growing and scaling that would help them be bolder, be louder, and make waves in their business.
Dina Behrman [00:40:56]:
I would say, remember that you have An important message to share, and don’t be scared to go out there and share it. Because sometimes people worry that they don’t have the right words to say or that they don’t have anything interesting enough to say. You know, we all have Important messages to share. We all have our stories of the journey that we’ve been on that has led us to this point in our business, And we all have expertise to share, and so to just go out there and share those things.
Laura Kåmark [00:41:38]:
Oh, I love that. I think that’s excellent advice. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. Can you tell our listeners where they can find out more about you or they could come hang out with you online?
Dina Behrman [00:41:50]:
Yeah. So my website is dinaburman.com, and I have a couple of free PR resources on there. And then I’m across social media. You can just search for my name, Dina Berman, and, I’m always happy to chat about Anything PR and publicity related.
Laura Kåmark [00:42:10]:
Wonderful. I will link all that up in the show notes. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. This was such a fun conversation.
Dina Behrman [00:42:16]:
Thank you so much for having me. I really enjoyed it.
Laura Kåmark [00:42:18]:
Thanks so much for listening to this week’s episode. Be sure to check out the show notes at laurakamark.com/podcast. And if you’re ready to turn your website into a marketing machine, Get more sales, save time, and simplify the back end of your business? Grab my free resource, power integrations for your website. Head on over to laurakamark.com/power. If you enjoyed today’s episode, Make sure to subscribe, and also I’ll just love you forever if you leave me a review. It helps get this podcast in front of other people that can help inspire.